Why Poker?
 

Why do you guys play poker?

For me, I play for a few reasons... and, surprisingly, #1 is not money. The #1 reason why I play poker is that it is a competitive game. And I like games, especially competitive games. I want to be the best at every game I play. Poker is just the first game I have found where I can also win a lot of money if I get good at it so I am not just 'wasting my time', whatever that means. So the #1 reason why I play is that it is a competitive game-- my competitive game of choice for the past few years. #2 is that I can win a lot of money playing it.

I think this why I have zero interest in playing 50 tables, even though I am pretty sure I could crush the 10-20 six-max game for more than I am beating the higher limits. And also why I really enjoy being in hands heads-up with good players. And is probably why I get bored when I am playing in a "good game", even though it is exactly the type of game I should be most excited about playing in, since I win the most money at it. The "good game" is boring because the strategy is fairly straightforward. No trickery or deep thought involved-- well not as much as when you are playing against a good player. I think it might also be the reason why I am more immune to tilt than most people, and don't do things like shout or get angry or punch my monitor or whatever. My #1 goal is to play the best I possibly can to beat the competitive game, not win money, so when I fail at winning money I am not that upset. I get more upset when I am not playing well, which in turn prompts me to get mad at myself and stop playing when I am not playing well, an excellent defense mechanism for long term survival in poker.

It could be that moving up to uncomfortable limits makes #2 take precedence over #1, because the money becomes more important. And then I will lose some of my advantage in the game such as the desire to play perfectly and not get upset, because the money lost might overshadow the desire to play well. This is why I have taken longer to move up to limits that Schneids and BK are playing, even though I am rolled to play in the games. However the desire to excel at the competitive game means I must move up in limits and play against tougher and tougher opposition. There is a balance between #1 and #2 inside of me-- when the money gets big, #2 starts to become more important than #1. I think this balance is very healthy to have, keeps me from playing too high or playing in very tough games but doesn't keep me out of moving up limits quickly or playing in moderately tough games.

This post is entirely inappropriate and appropriate for HUSH. HUSH people are my peeps so I'm posting it here rather than in psychology. Just things to think about.

Re: Why Poker?
 

Another good post.

One of the reasons that I'm less tilt-immune is that I still haven't learned to dissociate bad results from bad play, and vice-versa. When I play well I expect to win -- as generally happens in competitive sports/activites I involve myself in, and I need to learn to realize that there is enough variance in poker that I need to judge my own actions based on what they are, and not on what they provide.

Meh. I'm rambling. Trying to come up with a coherent way to think about life and poker that doesn't frustrate me right now.

Rob

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you guys play poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because I quit my job. Also, IMO there is just SOOOOO much money out there to be made with the WSOP and WPT stocking the lakes with fishies. Strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.

Re: Why Poker?
 

to meet chicks

duhhhhhhhh

Re: Why Poker?
 

Try pilates.

Re: Why Poker?
 

Well said. I feel pretty much the same way.

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The #1 reason why I play poker is that it is a competitive game. And I like games, especially competitive games. I want to be the best at every game I play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree. It is really sick.

The money is so irrelevant to me that I have never withdrawn a penny of my bankroll yet have declared and paid taxes on it.

However, I do aspire to play in big games someday, although I would never play in such a game using funds other than my segregated bankroll. Which is why, at some point, the money does become important to me. The way I see it, if I dont shepherd my bankroll, I dont get to play poker anymore.

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Try pilates.

[/ QUOTE ]

or MIT book discussion club?

Re: Why Poker?
 

money

perhaps more accurately, make enough money and still have 20 hours left each day to do what I want. plus I can (in theory) play anywhere so I am not restricted geographically.

so it is all about the money - but only because I can play where and for how long I want and choose my $$/time.

hopefully later this year I can secure some land and start a smallholding. live in a tipi for a year or two while we fix up the derelict old barn. it has its own spring, looks out over a beautiful bay, has no nearby houses yet is only a short walk from the town I currently live in. all I have to worry about is getting the satellite connection and setting up a source of electricity (wind/sun). the rest should be easy...

ha-ha. it might just happen. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Why Poker?
 

i read the title before opening and mentally answered the question with "because its a competitive game" - since childhood i have addictively played games - some games you can master and once i do i go from having to play them virtually everyday for a big chunk of the day to never playing them again overnight - arcade games were the early victims - other games you never master and that creates a conundrum for me because i cant stop playing them so now i have a couple of accumulated addictions of which poker is 1

but poker holds a different lure for me which is that i love to gamble - if i can bet money on something i always do - i gamble on several games of chance (i love craps the most) although for some reason i'm yet to fully fathom i have never lost more than i could afford to lose and i have never played games of chance addictively - if i can beat something i can bet on i always eventually do - horses, sports, and various card games are all long term winners for me now although i have all but given up horses because over the last 20 odd years it takes a lot of work to beat - but it did provide me with a living for several years in my late teens and early twenties

in terms of my plan to master poker (which i'm aware will never happen for anybody) it doesnt centre on playing better players at higher limits - i play up to 40/80 on-line but i think i derive more wisdon from playing 3/6 stud8 or 1/2 draw or tournaments or even regressing down to low limit short handed games - making a good living putting in 1,000 odd hands a day at a mid limit game of some description i can beat gives me plenty of time to indulge the lessons

i suspect that ultimately ring games arent going to do it for me - tournaments have a far better competitive edge

i have wondered how it is that i became like this - it might of been a horse called leonards inn that i had a dollar each way on at 100/1 that got up by a nose when i was 13 - or it could be that my great grandfather was a bookmaker in england in the 1800's - or it could be that i'm just the most competitive person i know - which ever way i've grown into loving it

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Re: Why Poker?
 

I could go the high road and say money or competition, but what I think it boils down to is free drinks.

Re: Why Poker?
 

SIIHP.

Re: Why Poker?
 

I started playing because the game was fun, and it was exciting to win money (even though I was a fish).

I kept playing because I'm competitive and I wanted to destroy the competition.

Now I just play for money. Even though I have a full time job, I like to have it in the back of my head that poker is a safety net if I lose my job or decide to quit.

Also, I want to retire at 32. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you guys play poker?

For me, I play for a few reasons... and, surprisingly, #1 is not money. The #1 reason why I play poker is that it is a competitive game. And I like games, especially competitive games. I want to be the best at every game I play. Poker is just the first game I have found where I can also win a lot of money if I get good at it so I am not just 'wasting my time', whatever that means. So the #1 reason why I play is that it is a competitive game-- my competitive game of choice for the past few years. #2 is that I can win a lot of money playing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was explaining this to my girlfriend the other day - nearly verbatim. Eerie.

Surf

Re: Why Poker?
 

Same here. I want to retire early. I work full time and use my spare time in poker as well.

Re: Why Poker?
 

I used to answer this question by saying it was all about the competition and the challenge. (Definitely not the money, since I'd make more money by working longer hours).

But while reading a recent book -- Diary of a Mad Poker Player -- the author said something that struck a nerve. He recognized that a major reason he played poker was simply to avoid doing other things. And there is no question that is a major reason for me as well.

Re: Why Poker?
 

I enjoy the competitiveness of it as well, but if it weren't for the money I would feel like I was wasting time.

--turnipmonster

Re: Why Poker?
 

Why Poker?

The primary driver that got me interested in the game was the opportunity to compete with others. I simply love competition (and even moreso, winning [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]).

More specifically, I love things where natural ability may give you a nice headstart, but then hard work and effort can get you much further. Sports for many years has offered me this same satisfaction and now poker is doing the same.

Being able to hone a skill and knowing that I can get improve as long as I put in the requisite time and effort is quite appealing and seems "fair" to me.

Of course, the fact that I can make money playing and working on poker is a nice plus and a great way to justify all the time spent to the wife. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Luke

Re: Why Poker?
 

Because there's few things more enjoyable than sitting down to a game and I like the idea that the winner gets money. Love playing live. Funny I'm tilt proof there like you, but not sitting by myself online.

I've always won live (I keep records) but only about break even online. I'm losing 245BB's over the last 30K hands and it's mostly because of a few big hands. I'm losing money with AKs-KQs-KJs, winning hardly nothing with AQ-JJ .06BB.

The "good games" have always been good for me live, but never online. Can't understand it. I've never seen a fish (fish = VPIP 50+ calling anything and everything) go broke. Never. I laugh when others say they're the moneymakers. I've never seen anyone feast on them online. I've seen them go broke live where they get up and run to the ATM, or walk around the room looking for loans. Seen that plenty of times. Never seen them go bust online. That tilts the sh*t out of me.

So, why poker? Because there's few things more enjoyable than sitting down to a game.

Re: Why Poker?
 

Poker/gambling is kind of complex for me. I'm married, have 4 young children, a house, a good job...couldn't be happier with how my life is turning out. My life is my family. My wife stopped working a few years ago and stays home full time with the kids, so really, every penny I make at my job is earmarked in some way for our monthly budget. We live in a fairly expensive area (Northern Virgina/DC Metro area) so there are not a lot of extravagant outlays for us beyond our monthly expenses.

Anyway, poker gives me an opportunity to enjoy something competitive and engaging without feeling guilty about "wasting time" (like when I used to spend a crapload of time on fantasy sports teams). I use the money for real life things like emergency car repairs or preschool tuition for my two littlest or to take my family out to dinner once in a while - stuff that would be much harder without poker/gambling.

Anyway, I guess I could have probably said "money" without going into all that detail, but I guess it also helps satisfy me on a bunch of different levels, too - self-worth, competitiveness, etc..

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you guys play poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

magic the gathering got boring and some of my friends switched to poker, so I joined in. I've always been a fan of card games (spades, hearts, asshol*, etc) so I picked right up on poker. Money is also good but if I wanted to make money in my spare time there would probably be better ways to do it

It's a somewhat intellectually stimulating hobby that is a lot of fun, and when I play live the social aspect is pretty awesome

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I enjoy the competitiveness of it as well, but if it weren't for the money I would feel like I was wasting time.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. I'm one of those competitive gamers as well. The money is nice, but the fact is that I really don't need it and haven't spent much of it. Though now that I've moved up to 10/20 . . . damn. Makes me wonder about making the move to playing for a living.

Anyway, point is that I used to waste tons of time playing computer games (Civilization was the biggest time-suck, but crap like Minesweeper and other games took their toll as well). But then . . . I find a game that is intellectually challenging and you make cold hard $$ when you do well. Makes those other games pale in comparison.

Money + Statistics + Gaming. What's not to love? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Why do you guys play poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Money, I value it the way most people don't seem to on these boards. I hope to make a million and retire.

Krishan

Re: Why Poker?
 

Better shoot for more than a million.

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Better shoot for more than a million.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a high school teacher. I'm use to living pretty cheap.

Krishan

Re: Why Poker?
 

Anyway 1 million would generate more interest than what I would need to live ...

Re: Why Poker?
 

1) I'd say the competition. More of in the sense though that I am driven to "beat" a game/level. I also love the fealing of outplaying or outsmarting someone.

2) I'd say the money is a big factor too. I could get along without it, but life is easier with it.

3) I have always like cards. Ive' spend countless hours on hearts/spades/assswhole/ blackjack/ before discovering a passion for poker. I hate to admit it, but I would continue to play poker even if I was a longterm loser. Now if that were the case.....I'd probably be playing nickle/dime.....but I wouldnt stop playing (i think).

Re: Why Poker?
 

I play because I can't do it very well and I know I ought to be able to and it bugs the hell out of me that I suck so badly so I keep trying. Luckily for me the opposition is even worse than I am. If it weren't for 2+2 I wouldn't have realised I'm not killing the game and would have given it up for boring and easy years ago.

I'm a mathematician. A really good one. People always expect I'll be good at games like chess and bridge, but I suck at them and always have. Any half competent player will destroy me easily, despite my having studied the games for an long time.

Poker is the one game I "should be good at" that I just about hold my own at despite basically sucking, because there just aren't many half-competent players out there.

Guy.

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play because I can't do it very well and I know I ought to be able to and it bugs the hell out of me that I suck so badly so I keep trying. Luckily for me the opposition is even worse than I am. If it weren't for 2+2 I wouldn't have realised I'm not killing the game and would have given it up for boring and easy years ago.

I'm a mathematician. A really good one. People always expect I'll be good at games like chess and bridge, but I suck at them and always have. Any half competent player will destroy me easily, despite my having studied the games for an long time.

Poker is the one game I "should be good at" that I just about hold my own at despite basically sucking, because there just aren't many half-competent players out there.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

This speaks to why I don't play poker competatively. If you have played chess competatively, you find out that no matter how much work you put into your game, there are people who can hand your ass to you on a platter. Lots of them. In fact the harder you study, the more you find out just how bad you are.

I don't have any illusions. I know I'm not one of the top .1% most poker capable/high ability players. I don't think many of us are. I think we have stumbled onto a game that most people who could really tear the game in half, don't know about. That's really the only reason we beat the games. Because the best minds in the game just haven't caught on.

If you really enjoyed a challenge, I think chess is a better game. If you want a game that makes you feel like your brilliant even though you might not be, poker is for you.

FWIW stellarwind is a good example of someone who is probably top .1%. I think he has an extensive background in bridge and it's not hard to tell he has a hell of a lot of talent. There are a lot of people like that.

Krishan

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW stellarwind is a good example of someone who is probably top .1%. I think he has an extensive background in bridge and it's not hard to tell he has a hell of a lot of talent. There are a lot of people like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are not a lot of people in the the top .1% no matter how you bill it. The very nature of .1% means not a lot.

Re: Why Poker?
 

going to make a wholehearted effort to pay for graduate school in two years, though the recent 250BB downswing puts a kink in that plan. learning is damn expensive!

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW stellarwind is a good example of someone who is probably top .1%. I think he has an extensive background in bridge and it's not hard to tell he has a hell of a lot of talent. There are a lot of people like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are not a lot of people in the the top .1% no matter how you bill it. The very nature of .1% means not a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, probably only 1 in 100 people are in the top 0.1%. Maybe less.

[/smartass]

Re: Why Poker?
 

i'll go with the less, like 1 in a 1,000

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'll go with the less, like 1 in a 1,000

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just crazy talk.

Re: Why Poker?
 

Why do you think you do not kill the games?

Re: Why Poker?
 

even 1,000 in 1,000,000 = not a lot (IMO [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Why do you think you do not kill the games?


[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't I mention the sucking? Oh, you want it more specific?

Essentially I have zero natural flair. I'm bad at picking up on patterns (this is also why I suck at chess). This means I don't read hands well, and I don't have a good feel for things like "flop texture" and "steal situations". I also find it hard to apply things I've worked out away from the table in new but similar situations because I don't realise they are similar.

Guy.

Re: Why Poker?
 

I came for the $$ and stayed for the competition and intrigue of the game (mathematical and psychological). I'm still working on the my game and the $ that follows.

John Vorhaus' book Killer Poker is a pretty good book and explores reasons why we play. It's not really a 2p2 style book, but it's good writing nonetheless and is worth a quick read.

Re: Why Poker?
 

It is pretty interesting to me that you know what you are doing wrong but are not able to fix it. Do you multitable? Play quickly? I read your posts all the time and you have good critical thinking skills about what to do during a hand-- are you acting really fast in your hands and not giving yourself time to think things over? You can obviously do the thinking out away from the table-- why not at the table? Do you feel pressured to act quickly and confidently and not slowly and deliberately?

Re: Why Poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Do you multitable? Play quickly?


[/ QUOTE ]

I play one or two tables. I've tried three but my brain can't keep up. I do think I make too many moves too quickly rather than stopping to think. Given that I know I'm not a good autopiloter, this is dumb. I will try to slow down.

[ QUOTE ]

I read your posts all the time


[/ QUOTE ]

I apologise for wasting your time.

Thanks for this discussion, rory: it's helping me and I hope it might be helping others too, if only because they get to laugh at my pathetic attempts to improve...

Guy.