QQ vs. 2+2er
 

Villain doesn't know who I am, I don't think. But he's a TAG.

I cap preflop in this spot 80% of the time, and call 20%. This is one of the latter.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero...

Call down? Check-fold the turn? Bet/fold the turn? Call the turn and fold a spade river?

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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Call the turn (if it's not a spade) and fold a spade river

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I think so, but then again I have had quite a few drinks tonight [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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I cap preflop in this spot 80% of the time, and call 20%. This is one of the latter.

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I'm sorry, but this is awful, when mixing up plays don't get cute in MW pots.

As for post-flop, I think i'm calling this one down as the pot is decent sized, villain could be doing this with JJ/1010/ AQs/ AJs and betting the turn and checking the river, so it may be cheaper than expected to call it down.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

My problem is, his flop raise indicates that either I'm beat (against which I'm drawing virtually dead) or he's on a spade draw. If I put him on a spade draw, can't I bet/fold the turn, realizing he'll probably only raise with a hand that beats me, and just call my stop-n-go with a hand like A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? But what if he calls the turn, should I check-fold a spade river? Bet/fold it? Check-call a non-spade?

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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realizing he'll only raise with a hand I beat

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hmm?

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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realizing he'll only raise with a hand I beat

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hmm?

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Oops, I obviously meant a hand that beats me.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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realizing he'll only raise with a hand I beat

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hmm?

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Oops, I obviously meant a hand that beats me.

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I know just givin [censored].
edit: goin to sleep, will reply to Jason and Q later today, peace [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

I'd probably check-fold the turn or call down unless the board got even worse, depending on my mood.

I don't know that another spade is a big concern, by the way. I'm thinking CO most likely doesn't have a flush draw unless it's specifically A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. And if CO has developed some sort of read on you, he might not be so quick to 3-bet AJs preflop. (And even if he has a flush draw on the flop, he might not raise with it.)

The 12 combos of AK scare me here, as do the 6 combos of AA and the 3 combos of KK. I doubt CO is raising AQo on the flop, so you're really hoping for a worse pocket pair or another QQ, and I think all of those hands become somewhat less likely when CO pops the flop.

Edit: By the way, how is the 3/6 full these days? I haven't played it at all since Party added the 3/6 6-max, and I haven't played that very much either.

I was planning to move to 5/10 6-max this past weekend, but then Party added some games and sort of derailed my plans. Now I'm not quite sure what to do.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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My problem is, his flop raise indicates that either I'm beat (against which I'm drawing virtually dead) or he's on a spade draw. If I put him on a spade draw, can't I bet/fold the turn, realizing he'll probably only raise with a hand that beats me, and just call my stop-n-go with a hand like A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? But what if he calls the turn, should I check-fold a spade river? Bet/fold it? Check-call a non-spade?

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I wonder if you gain much with a turn stop-n-go.

I think now that it's heads-up, CO will bet again a high percentage of the time, whether he has you beat or not. (He probably doesn't have a flush draw, and if he does, he may semi-bluff it instead of taking the free card anyway.)

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

Given that villain is a TAG and that he raised the K high flop, I would find this to be an easy check/fold turn UI.

The only thing you're beating is a spade draw, and your opponent isn't likely to have that often enough to justify calling down.

If that is a little weak tight for your tastes (and I suspect it may be), then I don't see any problem with a bet/fold line on the turn, provided a blank hits.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

I'd fold to his flop raise.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

There are two ways to attack the postflopp situation here, the way I see it
1. The approach u took leading out, makes u vurnerable to all kind of hands
Being a Tag, he could be raising with most hands in his range to either bluff u off
semi bluff or simply be ahead, none makes u the wiser. If u want to go to turn with this approach it cost u 2Sb

2. Why not check and raise his bet if it comes, it might get the other two contributing some money
and the tag is left with the tougher decision, if he then reraises I might consider folding on the spot or on the turn if no improvement on your behalf.On the other hand if he checks u still only contributed 2sb, and may have gained a few bets if ahead. I prefer the latter in this situation, and if u give a free card so be it

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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villain could be doing this with JJ/1010/ AQs/ AJs

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I doubt that a garden-variety TAG has AJs.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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I'd fold to his flop raise.

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Me too (I did not want you to feel alone on this one). I am not sure I would bet the flop here, but if I did it would be to see if I can safely fold. After his raise, I think you safely can.

Even if villain doesn't know hero is a fellow 2+2er or TAG, he still has to worry that the King high flop hit hero, who had himself raised pre-flop. If villain himself doesn't have a TPTK or better then his flop riase is a pretty risky move for the pot as he can expect to get three-bet here pretty often. Plus, with the flush draw out there his raise may not even knock everyone out. His flop riase to me looks like he probably likes this flop and hero is drawing to 2 outs or worse.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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I'd fold to his flop raise.

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Me too (I did not want you to feel alone on this one). I am not sure I would bet the flop here, but if I did it would be to see if I can safely fold. After his raise, I think you safely can.

Even if villain doesn't know hero is a fellow 2+2er or TAG, he still has to worry that the King high flop hit hero, who had himself raised pre-flop. If villain himself doesn't have a TPTK or better then his flop riase is a pretty risky move for the pot as he can expect to get three-bet here pretty often. Plus, with the flush draw out there his raise may not even knock everyone out. His flop riase to me looks like he probably likes this flop and hero is drawing to 2 outs or worse.

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me 3. but i would definitely bet the flop.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

What makes you think he's on a spade draw?

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

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What makes you think he's on a spade draw?

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Did you read my post?

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his flop raise indicates that either I'm beat (against which I'm drawing virtually dead) or he's on a spade draw.

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To Nick: The 3/6 full games are surprisingly great. I mean really good. This week has been the best I've seen them in a couple months. I've found tons of fish, and several pots going 6-handed for 1 bet preflop. I guess the 6-max thing just wasn't a big problem.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

Gotcha - well if you're that confident in your read - and it's unlikely he has a spade draw - I guess it's an easy fold.
Otherwise, I agree with most everything 27offsuit said.

Re: QQ vs. 2+2er
 

Re: Bet-folding the flop, I guess it depends on whether he's seen you do it before. If he has, he wouldn't need too much of a chance that you might do it again, to make this raise profitable.