Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Party 5/10 6max

You are the CO.

Reads:
1. Button is unknown.
2. SB is a very loose (70% VPIP), very passive straightforward player (only bets 2pair or better, raises PF with the most premium hands, doesn't bet draws, doesn't semibluff/bluff, doesn't slowplay, doesn't 3bet/cap w/o nuts) He is the reason I am playing 5/10.
3. I am in the BB. I have TAG 6max stats (23.5/13.5/2.2). I am aware of SB's tendencies. Also assume that I am playing very ABC poker (not getting tricky).

UTG folds, MP folds, you look down at T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . Your action?

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I raise and giggle like a naughty schoolgirl.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Fold preflop.

Well, that was easy.



(Kidding. Open-limping in 6max is criminal, and you've got a decent hand, so I'd raise it up. Odds are the SB will call with a weaker hand considering his VP$IP and that lucky guy in the BB probably thinks he'll be able to outplay both of you and will call, too.)

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Against a loose player I'd probably want more to steal with, but against a SB who's that poor and predictable, I think that'd be a good hand to play. So I'd raise it up and hope to see SB call and the button and that tight SOB in the BB fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

This is borderline for me. I'd be more inclined to raise it up if SB was tight. Since I figure he'll call, you're likely to call, too, so playing this hand for fold equity is going to be shaky. I don't mind playing against the SB, but I'd rather not play against you. I'd open raise on the button for sure, but being in the CO with a couple unfavorables, I'm leaning towards a fold. However, for the sake of continuing this discussion, I'll say raise, because open limping is terrible.

Edit: For this post, and this post only, I think my designation should be changed from veteran to ]-[4><0|2, but then back to veteran for my next post.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: For this post, and this post only, I think my designation should be changed from veteran to ]-[4><0|2, but then back to veteran for my next post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what that means, but for some reason I'm inclined to agree.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
]-[4><0|2

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

]-[4><0|2 = Haxor ? I don't understand?

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I raise, flop 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and laaaaaaaauuuuuuugh!

But, seriously. I raise because it's a playable hand with nobody in the pot, yet, and open-limping is for old ladies playing full-ring. I would expect SB and the crazy biotch in BB to defend, an am wondering how button will react.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

You made more progress than I did...I'm still trying to figure out how to subtract [ from ].

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
]-[4><0|2

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, before I bothered explaining this to you guys, I had 1337 posts. If you don't get it, be thankful that you're not nerdy enough.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I have a friend from college that we called (and still call) the Wookie (Wook, for short). [awe]He was much less complex than you are, tho.[/awe]

He's now taken his actuarial tests, and walks around with a beer in his hand at 3:30 in the morning saying things like, "Boz...I can tell you when you're going to die," in a Slingblade voice.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

The preflop part of this hand is a very easy raise, but I have a feeling this hand is going to become a real beast to play after we flop a gutshot and a backdoor flush, the SB checks, and you bet. Just sayin.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

pattern mapper

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I'll raise here almost 100% of the time in the CO. We have position against a very loose-passive SB, and there is a good chance the tight BB (me) will fold (you playing this HU vs. this SB shouldn't be too difficult). Only thing to worry about is Button, but even if he cold calls, SB is sure to come along, and you still have a good multiway hand.

Well my opponent decided to open limp (bad!).

So:

UTG folds, MP folds, You limp with T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] , Button folds, SB calls, <font color="red">I raise</font>, you call, SB calls.

3 to the flop for 6SB which comes: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, <font color="red">I bet</font>, You?

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I call, going for overcalls. A raise might get called by the SB, but I'd rather keep everyone along for the ride.

-Jaran

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

rrraise it

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Can I just point out how frighteningly close I was to what was going to happen?

SB is very loose and is probably coming along for the ride anyway. I raise here. We're swimming in outs.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

WTF? 5/10 6max isn't a micro limit full game :-P

BTW, easy easy easy raise on the flop here.


Limping here was a terrible mistake.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Raise to clear up overcard outs from SB because I think the 9 and Ten are probably good outs. Raise it up in case SB has something like TJ,Q9, etc. If SB calls well then it just pumps the pot for your draws. Either way its a raise.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I've got a gutshot straight draw, a flush draw, and a flop that probably missed the pre-flop raiser if he's playing ABC (absent a mid-low pocket pair).

Raise it!

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is a good chance the tight BB (me) will fold

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're folding in this spot freqently, you're giving up too much. Getting 5:1 and the opportunity to play against an ATM, you should be looking to play a LOT of hands. I'm thinking almost any sooted 3 gappers or better, Axs, Kxs, most Axo, and any two cards 8 or higher. That's an approximation (maybe more hands, maybe less), but you shouldn't be folding all that much in this situation.

[ QUOTE ]

UTG folds, MP folds, You limp with T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] , Button folds, SB calls, <font color="red">I raise</font>, you call, SB calls.

3 to the flop for 6SB which comes: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, <font color="red">I bet</font>, You?

[/ QUOTE ]

Will SB fold the flop ever/often for 2 cold? If so, I call. If not, raise it up.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

True. Most players won't defend with as many hands as I will, though, especially against an unknown player.

Anyways on the flop, I think regardless of what SB is going to do, we should be raising here. We have so much value/equity to forgo. On this flop, it is very likely to have missed me completely. You have 4 outs to the nut straight, 9 to a flush, and your T and 9 outs are likely to be good for at least 3 or more if I am raising with big/small broadways, giving you approximately 16+ outs. On top of that, I might back down with overcards, allowing you an opportunity to semi-bluff a blank turn and pick up the pot, or take a free card if you so choose.

Well, my opponent called...so here's the rest of the hand:

Preflop: You are CO with T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, You call, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="red">I raise</font>, You call, SB calls.

Flop (6SB): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">I bet</font>, You call, SB calls.

Turn (4.5BB): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">SB bets</font>, <font color="red">I raise</font>, You call, SB calls.

River (10.5BB): J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">I bet</font>, You ?
(explain why)

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Raise. Hope SB comes along, and/or hope you have AA and think I'm raising my Jx.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Call and go for an overcall by SB. If you're bluffing into a scare card I am not getting more out of you, if you aren't I dont want to put more money into the pot.

Edit: Too weak tight for 5/10 6 max? &lt;--

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
]-[4&gt;&lt;0|2

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, before I bothered explaining this to you guys, I had 1337 posts. If you don't get it, be thankful that you're not nerdy enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

ahh.. i didn't even see that... ju 1337 ]-[4&gt;&lt;0|2

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Raise. The BB will probably pay off. He has something of value here -- but what? The only hands that would make sense are A(8|6|4), maybe (K|Q)8, two broadway clubs, or a PP (AA-88|66|44). If he has a broadway clubs, he's not paying this raise off (maaaaaaaybe except with the ace of clubs. doubt it, unless he's paired off). Of course, if he has two clubs of large rank, you are pwned. If he has a set (now boat), you are pwned. If he has a high pair or an overpair, he's paying off. The $64,000 question here is how often will the SB call two cold versus the BB not calling the last bet (or three-betting your ass with the boat -- somewhat offset by him possibly jamming with two pair or an overpair!) Given the stupidity from the SB, I think he will often call two cold here, as he has shown to have a hand greater than an overpair.

[edit: F it, I change my mind and call. You are not raising to change the number of outs you are drawing to from two to five. The BB probably has a set turned boat, and we are all his little bitch. Two pair would make no sense in this instance, and I doubt he is raising an overpair or top pair if he knows he is drawing extremely thin. Crap.]

-K

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
SB has shown to have a hand greater than an overpair.

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

Is he dumb enough to bet two pair when one of the pairs is a board pair? If so, F his bet and F his little doggie too.

If not, I am almost certain he has trips, but not a boat (I think even he would find a 3-bet with a boat there). He probably thinks the BB has the case 4 and either a better kicker or the other card to the boat (or a set).

-K

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

SB checks, I bet, You ?

Wonder what the heck you're holding that has had you betting and raising the whole way. I hate the thought of hitting my hand and just calling, but now I'm wondering if I'm against a full house or a larger flush. Possible holdings: pocket 8s? AA, KK, QQ, JJ, Acxc?

Or are you representing the flush and hoping to steal the hand?

I've given you absolutely no indication that my hand is strong, but you seem to think you can beat SB, who could actually have a piece of that garbage flop. (And based on his bet, the turn.)

I think I just call. The pot is big (and would have been bigger if I had raised the pre-flop and the flop like I should have). Plus I can probably get an overcall from SB who might fold if I raise. That would mean I'd get the same number of bets without risking an extra BB and the possibility of a 3-bet from you.

Am I a wuss?

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I'm betting a crapload of things the whole way. Raising, however...

SB isn't betting a board-2pair...

Voracious is on to something.

EDIT: I have to go right now, but I'll post my thoughts when I get home in a couple hours.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
True. Most players won't defend with as many hands as I will, though, especially against an unknown player.

Anyways on the flop, I think regardless of what SB is going to do, we should be raising here. We have so much value/equity to forgo. On this flop, it is very likely to have missed me completely. You have 4 outs to the nut straight, 9 to a flush, and your T and 9 outs are likely to be good for at least 3 or more if I am raising with big/small broadways, giving you approximately 16+ outs. On top of that, I might back down with overcards, allowing you an opportunity to semi-bluff a blank turn and pick up the pot, or take a free card if you so choose.

Well, my opponent called...so here's the rest of the hand:

Preflop: You are CO with T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, You call, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="red">I raise</font>, You call, SB calls.

Flop (6SB): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">I bet</font>, You call, SB calls.

Turn (4.5BB): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">SB bets</font>, <font color="red">I raise</font>, You call, SB calls.

River (10.5BB): J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">I bet</font>, You ?
(explain why)

[/ QUOTE ]

first off raising from the CO w/ T9s shouldn't be your default play(for those suggesting it), its fine on the button, but still is on the weak end of stealing hands


villian calls the river going for an overcall

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
villian calls the river going for an overcall

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Given the read, SB looks to have made (edit:trips) and will likely call two cold. Even if you don't, you'll probably get a call from aK13 in the 13BB pot if his hand is worth raising the turn. That's the same amount you'll get from SB's overcall.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

It's dead obvious that CO is on a flush draw, calling down the flop and turn. A straight draw is not feasible because you would need a hand like 79 or 35 in order to be getting sufficient odds to call. The PF limp is a mistake, but even more of a mistake would be to limp with a hand like 35 or 79, so it's pretty safe to say that CO is on a flush draw IMO.

You, a thinking player, know that SB's donk on the turn means a good hand, most likely trips (since that's the only "draw" that the turn card completes). You also know that CO is on a flush draw and has just made his flush. So why do you lead?

I'm thinking you have a monster, maybe a boat with 88 or JJ. SB will call anything since he has trip 4s. You know CO will raise your hand for you with his completed flush, so you 3-bet when it gets around and CO will be compelled to call. This way you get 3 bets out of SB and 3 bets out of CO, a total of 6 BBs. If you checkraise the CO it is not guaranteed that he will 3 bet with his semiweak flush. SB calls of course and CO calls, giving a profit of only 4BBs.

Action: CO folds river, unwilling to be BB's bitch

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I don't think it's that obvious that CO is on a flush draw. Remember, your table image is 'lame duck'. You just openlimped from the CO. You could be a donk with a small pair that you can't let go of here.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

no offense, but I don't think you should tell us the results. That would make this post stupid and result oriented.

And yes, I think since villain is betting the whole way, you raise and fold to a 3bet. plus, the fact that SB bet here doesn't mean that he has trips. he didn't 3bet the turn, which not only a fish would do, but I would do as well. on such a raggy board.


whatever, just call, and hope SB overcalls.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

I came into this one late, but I am going to have to say just call. If you raise and knock out SB, you would make the same as when you call and he overcalls except you lose one less bet when behind.

If we raised here, I certainly do not want to have to fold to a 3-bet (which would be the correct play I think). I think there is a very good chance we are behind here based on the reads you provided. SB almost certainly has a 4 as he woke up when the board paired, and he is 70% VPIP. The fact that you would also know he has trips and are still willing to raise (fully knowing he won't fold) makes me think you have 88. Also, you are willing to bet when the flush card hits after watching me call 2 cold. You have a boat almost all of the time - I call.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have a boat almost all of the time - I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are getting 12.5-1 odds to call, so it will be breakeven if he has a boat 7.4% of the time. If you think he has a boat more often than that, fold. Less often, call. I lean towards fold.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

scotty is completely right here...SB is representing a 4 -- after I raise his turn bet, my range of hands is pretty much exclusively on 88 or 66 since I will not raise any hand that isn't better than trip 4s, and given the action so far, those are the only two hands.

It's not obvious that CO is playing a flush draw...for all I know, he could be calling down with a 6 here, or chasing a straight.

SB shows K4o, I show 88, CO was drawing dead on the turn.

However, then the question is about folding to the turn raise with T9s here. With reads these solid, it seems the correct play would be to fold there, knowing that you are not folding a live draw ~2/7.5 times.

Anyways, I hope you all get a sense of hand reading and such out of this hand. Been a while since I've posted anything. This hand occurred shortly after some discussion about Evan's 32s hand, where some 2+2ers were advocating a turn raise (go search for it). I think raising the river in this hand is a very serious error.

Re: Playalong time: Play my opponent\'s hand...
 

[ QUOTE ]

It's not obvious that CO is playing a flush draw...for all I know, he could be calling down with a 6 here, or chasing a straight.


[/ QUOTE ]

This would be read dependant. If CO is a thinking player at all he would not call down with a 6, and I already gave a list of possible straight-chasing hands, none of which are feasible. So I guess if the CO is TAGish, we are nearly 100% sure it's a flush draw, and if he is not a solid player, then we really open up our range of hands. Again, highly read dependent.