PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (7 handed) converter

SB ($404.5)
BB ($696.75)
UTG ($859.3)
MP1 ($582)
MP2 ($963.25)
Hero ($754.6)
Button($712.5)

Preflop: Hero is LP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $24</font>, Button calls $24, SB calls $24, BB calls $18, MP2 folds.

Button is quite LAG, but usually makes moves his big moves on river or aginst hands that haven't shown a lot of stregth. Assumed that SB &amp; BB have either runners or small pair.

Flop: ($78) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $50</font>, SB calls $50, BB folds.

Turn: ($178) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $150</font>, Button raises to $350

Hero?

Comments on all streets.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

I like every street, I would move in on the turn. The only hands I am afraid or are AJ hearts, slowplayed KK, possibly J9 heats, I will live with those beats plus you have redraw.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

i'm a little confused as to the action.

on the flop it says sb calls, but the turn says button bets and it's 2 handed. did button call the original bet and sb and bb fold?

i'd bet a bit more on the flop, to price obvious draws as much as possible. you showed strength pf, they know you have a hand, and if they have a draw, you'll want to price them as much as possible on that kind of a board.

the turn i'd stick it in there to make him show me that AJ or J9.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (7 handed) converter

SB ($404.5)
BB ($696.75)
UTG ($859.3)
MP1 ($582)
MP2 ($963.25)
Hero ($754.6)
Button($712.5)

Preflop: Hero is LP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $24</font>, Button calls $24, SB calls $24, BB calls $18, MP2 folds.

Button is quite LAG, but usually makes moves his big moves on river or aginst hands that haven't shown a lot of stregth. Assumed that SB &amp; BB have either runners or small pair.

Flop: ($78) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $50</font>, SB calls $50, BB folds.

Turn: ($178) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $150</font>, Button raises to $350

Hero?

Comments on all streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see how villain is giving us credit for a set. LAG could easily be doing this with with Ax hearts, kq, whatever...1010 may have just got there, i mean we didnt show real strength on the flop, and he may have been planning on making a move on the pot...my range for villain is fairly large and we are really only afraid of AJ or J9hearts....i dont see KKK much here as i think we would have heard from LAG at somepoint, i mean he is LAG he is supposed to raise, he could bump the pot on two earlier streets and expect to get action, IMO.

i think we have to shove on the turn, calling pot committs us anyway and i just dont think we are behind enough times here to fold. I mean we are dealing with a LAG who has position, not a rock. If we are behind, we can always river quads baby!

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

The converter did some funky stuff with position of people on this one and tried to manually fix it but I missed the part you noticed.

My concern is the turn where I've obviously got at least a pair and in this position, quite possibly top 2 or a very big set and he's raising me after a healthy bet on the turn. There just aren't that many hands that he will put me on that I'm likely to fold so I pretty much have to assume he thinks he's ahead and is value betting. The question is whether he's right or not.

An extra $10-20 on the flop would have been fine, I randomly vary my bet sizes between 50-110% of the pot in situations like this and that's where the # game out.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

That was not the board I was expecting to see when I clicked on the thread. Stick the rest of your money in there and either win or lose, then move on to the next hand.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
That was not the board I was expecting to see when I clicked on the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is what i thought when i clicked this thread. really, there are a few 2nd best hands the T makes, very few better ones (all of which give you redraws) and one hand which had you crushed on the flop. I suspect a push has a very good chance of getting called by a hand drawing stone cold dead.

fim

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

You have no other option but to shove all your money in there. You're playing against a player whose turn raising range is wider than your typical player's and all you've done is bet two streets. If he can conclude from a flop bet and turn bet that you're often holding a set, two pair, or some other monster you'll never fold then you're doing something very wrong (and he's unusually observant for a 600nl player).

Folding is ludicrous and so is calling and leading if the board pairs or check-calling (FOLDING??) if it doesn't. Those aren't viable alternatives to shoving for obv. reasons.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

Bet 80ish on flop.
Reads on any of the players?

I dont see why you wouldnt get it all-in.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

I would have bet atleast the pot on that draw heavy flop, but whats so ugly about this board?

The turn is an easy push, and if he hit his gutshot, well, that's what's fun about being LAG, you get paid off well.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

The common theme seems to be that this isn't a threatening board and I tend to disagree but I'll elaborate.

This opponent like most good LAG's usually attacks when you show weakness or when circumstances make it far less likely that a conventional raise with big cards hit a flop or the board is threatening with something like paired 10's, 3 running cards, monochorme flop, etc. He's good, a consitent winner, not some donk who will try to push all in with a pair like JJ over a solid preflop raiser on the flop when an A or K comes on the flop. As the preflop raiser I was virtually certain to have hit that flop quite solidly, so I tend to read his lack of fear on the turn as a clear indication that he's got a very solid hand here as he has to be aware that I'm at least 50% likely to have a hand I'm willing to push back with on the turn and his reraise makes him very close to being pot committed, which I doubt he'd do if he's on the draw since even the best possible draws here are better off just calling here.

Does no one else tend to read these circumstances where he's raising me in spite of the likelihood of a strong hand on my part the same way or is this an individual quirk in my thinking?

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

the villian can have a strong hand and think he is winning here and just be wrong. one of his most probable hands here is 2 pair and thats losing to trip Qs. when you add in the potential for some bluffs and pair+draw type hands and the fact that the queens have an ok redraw to the boat even when things are bad for the amount of money in play there is just nothing to think about. debating about how threatening the board is isnt all that producative cause its not threatening enough to warrant considering any other options.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
That was not the board I was expecting to see when I clicked on the thread. Stick the rest of your money in there and either win or lose, then move on to the next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]exactly my thoughts. jesus. this board seems like nitfest USA lately. what board are you hoping for? i guess you pushed and he had AJ. SO WHAT.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That was not the board I was expecting to see when I clicked on the thread. Stick the rest of your money in there and either win or lose, then move on to the next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]exactly my thoughts. jesus. this board seems like nitfest USA lately. what board are you hoping for? i guess you pushed and he had AJ. SO WHAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha nitfest USA. i love it. so true.

and the board is not Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] so maybe QQQ is no good?

FOR GOD SAKES THROW YOUR MONEY IN AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. but yeah no more bumping this thread, sorry guys.

Re: PP NL 600 Set of Q\'s facing an ugly board.
 

I would think 9J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or AJ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is going to raise this flop.