Was I outplayed here?
 

Just started playing $100NL at Party ... and this guy pulls this stunt with ... well, see if you can guess.

My question really is: should I have raised from the SB in the first place? And how did I play it from then on?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, NL$100 (9 handed) converter

BB ($88.8)
UTG ($64)
UTG+1 ($61.7)
MP1 ($100)
MP2 ($272.6)
MP3 ($97)
CO ($73.2)
Button ($97.35)
Hero ($97)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $3</font>, BB calls $2.5.

Flop: ($6) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $9</font>, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($24) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $20</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $44

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

bet more on the flop,

once he raises, I go all in.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

72o?

pot the flop, he'll be less likely to bluff raise you if you make a full pot bet.

if you had potted it, and he had made a good raise, then a 3-bet all-in would have been the play to make. you'd have 3 A outs, 3 T outs, 9 club outs, and good fold equity against anything but a set.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

You definitely can't go all-in for such an overbet on the flop, but I would re-raise to $30.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

if you were both deeper,

just calling the flop raise is ok, but at buy in level stacks, I like a strong flop bet followed by a push if raised.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you were both deeper,

just calling the flop raise is ok, but at buy in level stacks, I like a strong flop bet followed by a push if raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
quoted for truth.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

I agree that once hero underbet flop, pushing such an overbet is weird but I think if hero bet more preflop say 4xbb or 5xbb,

bet near pot on flop, got raised,

then he could push as the pot size would be exponentially bigger.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

He had 52s (spades, though not clubs) ... but I'm not sure if he knew what he was doing, or was just being reckless!

The reason I shut down is, after playing quite sensibly and fairly profitably at 25NL and 50NL, I'm used playing small pots aggressively, but waiting for a great hand before I commit my whole stack.

I'll bet my draws, but I'm not used to playing back at someone who raises me when I'm on the draw. Partly cos I like to be the one in control (who doesn't!), but also because at the low limits I didn't NEED to get involved in situations like this. I'd usually pass it over for a better situation later on, even if I thought that in theory I had pot odds and a bit of fold equity.

Thanks for the replies!

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that once hero underbet flop, pushing such an overbet is weird but I think if hero bet more preflop say 4xbb or 5xbb,

bet near pot on flop, got raised,

then he could push as the pot size would be exponentially bigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I usually bet about 2/3 of the pot as standard, no matter what I have. (Don't ask me why I bet $3 instead of $4 here - a small mistake that makes all the difference?) I'll have to improve my strategy based on the situation!

I either wanted him to fold there and then, or call and let me catch a club. He wasn't supposed to raise me! Since he called from the start with essentially nothing, it's possible he may have had it in mind to try and outplay me no matter what I did.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

particularly in blind battles, you have to be willing to 3-bet fairly regularly, IMO. still don't go crazy, because people still aren't that aggro here, but if you have a hand which could be best and has many many outs to improve, i definitely think a 3-bet is good. it will also set the tone for future conflicts and he will raise you (or call you) less liberally.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

on the surface, 4 vs 3 or 5 vs 3 doesn't seem that much.

However, if we look at it indepth, each street triples potsize if you bet pot and other guy calls. since this usually doesn't happen, notice even if you bet 1/2 pot and other guy calls, potsize doubles.

we all know how interest at say a bank works. you have your principle and that is multiplied by your interest rate and experiences exponential growth.

Its the same idea here.

while betting 4 doesn't seem that different from 3, you've increased your initial principle by 4/3 thus increasing all future bets.

Also a raise to 3 seems like a steal attempt and a raise to 4 seems a bit more legitimate especially if I've been raising limpers with 4xBB.

guys at SSNL can't tell that you've lowered your raise amount because its folded to the blinds.

having played the flop like you did, turn check fold is fine.

Re: Was I outplayed here?
 

Well...I agree with the other posters about your flop bet size. I like to bet around 80-90% of the pot on most streets, because, for some reason, and this will sound crazy, it looks like neither a bluff nor a legitimate bet to players.

Try upping from that 2/3 thing a bit, b/c I would not fold very often in that situation, either...and certainly not the 1/2 bet...that screams weakness. You want to make it look like you're betting as much as you can without running him out...like you want the call.