10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

3-handed at the moment and both opponents are relatively unknown. Each is your standard 41/7 loose/passive 10/20 opponent.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

What's your "standard" line here?

___1___

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

bet, bet, check/fold

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I would bet as a standard line, as long as you dont always checkraise your made hands.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I would always bet out on this flop threeway.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

Bet the flop. If you are not raised bet most turn cards. Give it up on the river.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I play this passively about one third of the time.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

Bet and bet a ton of other stuff aswell.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I probably bet half the time and go for a checkraise the other half of the time, depends on what kind of loose-passives these guys are.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I'm going to disagree with everyone else in the thread and say that I check-call this flop. Folding equity is low because both draws(J9, Q9, QJ, 79) and made hands will call both the flop and turn. This flop is likely to hit a loose passive limper.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

No standard - depends on recent history. If I'm "owed" a pot, I'll take this one.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet, bet, check/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

here as well

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
3-handed at the moment and both opponents are relatively unknown. Each is your standard 41/7 loose/passive 10/20 opponent.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

What's your "standard" line here?

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]

still better than a stats post.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to disagree with everyone else in the thread and say that I check-call this flop. Folding equity is low because both draws(J9, Q9, QJ, 79) and made hands will call both the flop and turn. This flop is likely to hit a loose passive limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont like check call, you take away any chance you have to win the pot. Sure it might not be a huge chance, but its still a chance. youve only got one limper and a bb in the hand.

I bet the flop, and prolly bet the turn if I dont take it on the flop, but that depends on the card and if they both called or just one called.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

***This user's advice-giving priviledges have been revoked.***

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I like betting here, and (of course) calling a raise.

I also fire again on the flop, and depending on the board, c/f or b/f the river.



On another note,
[ QUOTE ]
still better than a stats post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to point out that I have not seen one post of yours that has been either positive, helpful, or that has contributed to the forum in any way. I don't know who you think you are, but "Carpal Tunnel" status doesn't give you the right to try to bully people around. Try posting a non-sarcastic, straight forward reply to someone's post.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I bet the flop, and prolly bet the turn if I dont take it on the flop, but that depends on the card and if they both called or just one called.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you bet flop/turn and don't improve by river, I think that you should bluff many river cards(any except for Q or J). You have odds to bluff because your opponent will often be on a J9 or QJ type draw and fold.

I think check-calling the flop often gets you a free turn card against passive opponents and your chances of taking down the pot are particularly slim on this board, otherwise I'd advocate betting.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to disagree with everyone else in the thread and say that I check-call this flop. Folding equity is low because both draws(J9, Q9, QJ, 79) and made hands will call both the flop and turn. This flop is likely to hit a loose passive limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

I took the check/call (button bet and only I called), check/fold line in this instance (turn was 2s) as I probably do 75% of the time in this specific instance. FWIW, if a diamond comes on the turn I'll almost always either donkbet or checkraise depending on the opponent.

Intuitively, the passive line just seems "right" to me in this instance. Lots of very good replies!

___1___

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
***This user's advice-giving priviledges have been revoked.***

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

___1___

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]

I took the check/call (button bet and only I called), check/fold line in this instance (turn was 2s)...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you realize you had a double gutshot? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to disagree with everyone else in the thread and say that I check-call this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't have odds to call, do we? I think it's either a bet or a check/fold. No?

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you realize you had a double gutshot?

[/ QUOTE ]


Ummmmm, on the turn I need 3.5-1. If I give myself 10 outs I guess it's a wash (3.6-1). Eh, it's close. Do you not agree (considering the line I took)?

___1___

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I think you have enough to call w/ implied odds+chance you'll hit a 6 or 7 and get a free showdown.

You're getting 38:8 or 4.75:1 on the draw and you're getting 3.5:1 pot odds. I think you make more than a little more than 1.25 BB on implied odds.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have enough to call w/ implied odds+chance you'll hit a 6 or 7 and get a free showdown.

You're getting 38:8 or 4.75:1 on the draw and you're getting 3.5:1 pot odds. I think you make more than a little more than 1.25 BB on implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough...

At least now I know why my WSD is lower than everyone else in this forum. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

___1___

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

i bet the flop. i bet the turn if its heads up otherwise checkcall the turn.

i am certain that if your line is bet, bet then you follow thru and bet the river so long as it not a q and you are headsup.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I would bet this everytime against reasonably tight opponents, but there's no point in semi-bluffing against loosies. They'll call here with two overs or any sort of gutshot, and you don't have any showdown value.

If I did bet and was called by a loose player, however, I would fire again on most non-A turns, as lots of players only fold on the turn. If I bet and am called by a tighter player, it's a check-call, check-fold situation.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I think betting is easily best here for three reasons. First, you do have some folding equity on the flop, however small, because one of these hands is random and the other is still quite possibly some junk like K2s. Second, you are unlikely to get raised and against the range of hands that will call you on the flop you are not doing that bad anyway so its not necessarily bad to put a bet in even if you are usually behind when called. Third, betting the flop sets us up to bet the turn, when quite a few of the hands that called the flop will fold unimproved.

I would also bluff the river on a lot of boards, if necessary.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to disagree with everyone else in the thread and say that I check-call this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about this hand some more and my original post is wrong. This is a good spot to semi-bluff the flop and turn because of the wide hand range of our opponents, though it may require that we bluff many river cards. The semi-bluff chances are better value than the chance of receiving a free card on the turn.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

my post wasn't sarcastic actually. oh, and all of your posts have contained questionable to flat out bad advice - and i'm not just saying this because you decided to attack me.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

Hey 1 guy, I am going to agree with you and say if you think it's intuitively right for "you" to check/call here, then it probably suits your game, maybe you aren't as agr with made hands as others here so this kind of flop check/call keeps you getting paid off or just works for you. But intuitively I think for me this should just be straight out bet/bet/ check/fold.

I think betting some river cards has merit though, exactly what I don't know, perhaps some randomized game theory or something is worth doing here, say any of the gutters which make our hand, say we bet with any made straight + any 2s or 3s which hit the board (i don't know is this optimal?). I would check/call on the end with any made pair.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought about this hand some more and my original post is wrong. This is a good spot to semi-bluff the flop and turn because of the wide hand range of our opponents, though it may require that we bluff many river cards. The semi-bluff chances are better value than the chance of receiving a free card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

After looking at the math I also think betting the flop and turn is correct. Luckily (for me), this post will certainly act as a catalyst for me to go through a bunch of hands and make sure the math is matching my intuition.

Actually, when decision after decision seems routine its quite refreshing to see that you're wrong in a situation. Very nice, guys.

___1___

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
my post wasn't sarcastic actually. oh, and all of your posts have contained questionable to flat out bad advice - and i'm not just saying this because you decided to attack me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thank you for your input. If it mattered, I would care.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
3-handed at the moment and both opponents are relatively unknown. Each is your standard 41/7 loose/passive 10/20 opponent.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

What's your "standard" line here?

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]

I would bet. I have no idea if that is correct, but it is what I do.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

Bet the flop and 3 bet if raised. Lead the turn, and check fold the river unimproved.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

Check fold the flop, the pot is small and u only spent half a bet. If this is too tight 4 u bet the flop fold to any further aggression whatsoever unless u imrpove.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check fold the flop, the pot is small and u only spent half a bet. If this is too tight 4 u bet the flop fold to any further aggression whatsoever unless u imrpove.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to assume you don't realize he has a double gutshot...

Does no one *ever* go for a check-raise here?
 

Just curious.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have enough to call w/ implied odds+chance you'll hit a 6 or 7 and get a free showdown.

You're getting 38:8 or 4.75:1 on the draw and you're getting 3.5:1 pot odds. I think you make more than a little more than 1.25 BB on implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough...

At least now I know why my WSD is lower than everyone else in this forum. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]


Is that a challenge ?

Re: Does no one *ever* go for a check-raise here?
 

Not with the read he gave.

Re: Does no one *ever* go for a check-raise here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not with the read he gave.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, 41/7s usually aren't going to the river with A-high. They also might fold a weak 8 . . . It's probably bad, but I'm just curious.

Re: 10/20 6max, Typical Situation
 

I bet the flop and wouldn't give any other play a second look. Usually I bet the turn as well but that's a huge "it depends"

1. I win a ton of pots by doing this.

2. You make a Sklansky-fortune when A5 chases your pair of eights to showdown in a 3 SB pot. These semibluff bets balance my play and preserve this major income stream.

3. My pair outs have no kickers. Taking K6 out of this pot is a big gain because it may allow me to win a pot that was about to become an expensive loser when I am compelled to show my pair down.