Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Link HERE

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Interesting article, but I don't agree. The U.S. Open is all about carnage...in that way it's different from any other event on tour. I think it would be a mistake to lose that difference.

Birdies in the U.S. Open piss me off. I don't want birdies, I can see them any other week of the year. I want thick rough, hard greens, narrow fairways...if Carnoustie had been a U.S. Open, it would have been perfect.

I hear the argument sometimes that the U.S. Open set-up is unfair because it punishes good shots. Well, I don't think that's true -- if the green is too hard to hold a shot, then landing the ball on the green is not likely to be a good shot. The players will continue to whine endlessly, but I hope the USGA never makes things easier for them.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Interesting, although I have to say I don't agree with it.

It seems to me that the U.S. Open setups have just as many risk-reward opportunities, it is just that they tend to be more with the approach shot rather than the drive. The setup rewards straight drivers to be certain, but the real test is finding the right spot on the green, or even in some cases the right place to miss the green. I see nothing wrong with having a different type of challenge.

The U.S. Open winners this year may have been relative unknowns, but that's hardly the case most years.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

in response to the current 2 replies, I think shackelford sees it as a problem to ruin good golf courses. His perspective is tied to architecture. He likes to see strategy and believes that the current equipment ruins a lot. Check out his other writings.

I tend to agree with him on this one. I too like to see the US Open as a tough test. But Donald Ross was a better golf course architect than the USGA people. It bothered me that some bunkers were in the rough. Seems to me the bunker was there for a reason. Maybe because of a risk-reward scenario for the ideal angle to a hole location. I don't think shackelford wants a soft open, just a more intelligent one.

I also think a mix is appropriate. You want penal aspects to the course, but not every single hole or shot should have that as the goal. A strategically placed nasty bunker can do wonders, where fairways that are so narrow everybody hits them about the same are dumbed down.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Very good article.

One thing I miss is players hitting med./long irons into par 4s.

One of the old marks of great major champions was good long iron play. Now, no matter how long the hole, wedges and short irons are the norm.

Watching the event at Congressional a few weeks back really brought it to focus.
The 17th, where Els laced a 5 iron into the water-guarded green, and Lehman found the drink with a 5 iron.
This year I saw wedges landing in the back fringe and sucking back. Ugh.

18th at Pinehurst. Goosen finished off his awful round with Driver/SW.

The fairways are so brick hard, that you either Drive it into the rough (where you hack out), or 340 yds, where you wedge on.
The precious "Par" that the USGA is so found of is gained mostly by tricked up greens and hole locations. Sad.

Augusta saw the need for more demanding 2nd shots, and adjusted well.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

read an article today about Vijay's practice round at Baltusrol. Sounds like the PGA agrees with you. They have made Baltusrol really long. A 248 yard par 3, and some par 4's pushing 500 as has become the thing in majors. I know I am not a pro and am not playing these couses from the tips, but I can say that 495 yard par 4's are not my forte. LOL.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Before Campbell, every U.S. Open (mens) winner since 1990 has won at least 8 tournaments, with the exception of Goosen, who has won only 5, but also has 17 international wins. He's certainly a world class player. Steve Jones and Lee Janzen seem the only "weak" players to have won, but they've both won 8 tournaments, so their winning was hardly a fluke. Furyk, Stewart, Els, Kite, Woods, Pavin, Goosen, Irwin--it's a pretty impressive list. The cream generally rises to the top no matter the layout.

The author makes a good point though, I think, when he says the older courses have been rendered outdated to some extent by the new players and the new equipment. I mean didn't Tiger hit an iron for his second shot into a 600 yard hole?

While I'm not a Fuzzy fan, I like what he said a few years back when everyone was complaining about the course being unfair and too difficult: "Somebody's going to win, right?"

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Somebody's going to win, right?"

[/ QUOTE ]

So crowning a champion makes everything all right?
Rubbish.
You might feel a little different if you were the last group to play #6 last year before they began watering.

Heck, why don't they just play the WSOP this year with everyone standing on one leg the duration?
Somebody's going to win, right?

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Wah wah wah I don't hit the ball far enough wah wah wah

Blackjack

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

It's golf, not the war in Iraq. Fuzzy's point, about hte bitching and moaning, was that what does it matter if the winner shoots even par or 32 under? The trick is to shoot a lower score than anyone else. The course is hard, the greens are too fast, good shots are punished, yada yada. Play. Whoever plays the best will win.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

[ QUOTE ]
The players will continue to whine endlessly, but I hope the USGA never makes things easier for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could be wrong, but I thought the players were pretty unanimous in their praise for the setup at Pinehurst this year.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

I understood his (your) point.
I just don't agree with it.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

[ QUOTE ]
"it isn't the sternest test of golf, it's just the sternest test of driving. You miss a fairway, you're screwed and that brings everybody, regardless of his ability, down to the same level."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the worlds number one and number two were both way down there in fairways hit but the top two or least 2 of the top 5 in greens hit. It was the putting that cost both of them the tournament not the width of the fairways.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Like someone else said, the US Open has a niche and it would be a mistake to change that. The US Women's Open is the only women's event I'll watch all year.

To tell you the truth, I read that entire article and I still don't really see what his point is. Cut the rough and make the tournament like every other on tour?

I'm not sure how much the author knows about golf, but when you want to toughen up a course, that's pretty much what you do - grow the rough, make the greens fast, and tuck the pins.

I see complaints about the US Open as a total non-issue. I get the feeling even the author doesn't really believe his "argument".

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

Fair enough. Didn't mean to be condescending, if I came across that way, my apology.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

This is correct. Vijay and Tiger outplayed everyone tee to green but had putting woes.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. Didn't mean to be condescending, if I came across that way, my apology.

[/ QUOTE ]

No worries. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Most weeks Tiger and/or Phil outplay the field tee to green.
They are head and shoulders above most of their competition.
If they chip/putt well, they win.

Pinehurst was a little different challenge.
With so many of the hole locations on a high spot, and/or near a drop off, shooting away from pins made lag putting extraordinarily tough.
Tiger admitted after one of the rounds that he just didn't have enough makeable putts.
Johnny Miller harped on how Phil and Tiger were giving the course too much respect, and not shooting at enough pins.
And that Retief was shooting at many of them.
(#18 Saturday comes to mind. Refief missed short side, and made the putt from the fringe. He later commented that it was an easy uphill putt.)

The toughest lag putt (for me) is one that is uphill most of the way, then downhill around the hole. There is little margin for error with speed.
In most rounds of golf, you won't have a putt like this.
I think the players saw a lot of these putts at Pinehurst.

Re: Good Article On Problems W/ USGA Set Ups
 

I like a bloodbath once a year, but Shinnecock and Olympic were ridiculous. Congressional and Pinehurst '99 have had the best recent Opens.