2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Let's set one of these up and see how the 2+2ers do trading. There is little doubt winning poker and winning trading are positively correlated.

I'd like to see somethnig structured in at least a 4-month timeframe so the buy-the-breakout, sell-the-breakdown types can't just jump in and get lucky. I also want to be able to go short as well as long, with no leverage. No options. Just pure long or short stock.

Who wants to take participate in this?

Example:
http://game.marketwatch.com/Competit...titionHome.asp

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Count me in. However, I've used the Virtual Stock Exchange website for a previous competition and I don't recommend it. Perhaps they've changed since then, but they had some serious issues such as the ability to short stocks that are about to split 2:1 resulted in a guaranteed 50% gain.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I'd give it a shot.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Sure.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I'm in.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Count me in. As long as we can go short as well as long.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is little doubt winning poker and winning trading are positively correlated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll probably give it a shot, just to prove you wrong. I suck at poker (lately), but when it comes to trading...

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
No options.

[/ QUOTE ]
Aww no fun [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

I don't have much time on my hands as of late but I will throw something together for the hell of it.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I'm in.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Ok who can decsribe a better site for hosting this than www.marketwatch.com?

Let's pick the right platform to host this. If you have some experience with marketwatch and/or another site to host this, please speak up and we'll get some consensus going here and then pull the trigger on setting this up.

As of today Marketwatch looks like the host. We are looking for at least a 3-month timeframe, long and short stock and ETFs only, with no margin, mutual funds or options.

Also if others have ideas on how to promote this more broadly on 2+2 for max participants, let's discuss that also.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who wants to take participate in this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm down! If it's free and "just for fun" [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] then you can count me in!

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Sounds cool, count me in.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

i'm totally in as well, i'm also doing many other competitions on marketocracy.com, stockquest.com and others, while working on my own portfolio

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I'm in-just send me the news...

Sticky [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I have zero clue what to do, but if its free its for me. I'd love to learn. This is the first time I have ever looked in this forum and I may forget to ever look again, are you going to send out PM's to confirm this or post a thread or something?

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I'll give it a try.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is little doubt winning poker and winning trading are positively correlated.

[/ QUOTE ]
Quite a claim there. Got any hard data to back it up?

Count me in on the competition. BTW, my selections will be what I am actually holding in my IRA and cash accounts, not some crazy gambles made in order to win bragging rights on this board.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
my selections will be what I am actually holding in my IRA and cash accounts, not some crazy gambles made in order to win bragging rights on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Different objectives, particularly significantly different investment horizons, should be approached differently, IMO.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

The MarkeWizards series from Jack Schwager. See the interview with Mark Minervini in STOCK MARKET WIZARDS. Poker is specifically mentioned as training tool.

In the other books in the series (interviews with top traders,) poker is mentioned in 3 or 4 interviews.

Search "trading" "Goldman" and "Minervini" using the search feature to learn more. I believe Sklansky has been retained by trading firms in the past to teach poker and general EV concepts.

The correlation is well established.

Please note that "losing-poker" and "losing-trading" are likely highly correlated also.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
The MarkeWizards series from Jack Schwager. See the interview with Mark Minervini in STOCK MARKET WIZARDS. Poker is specifically mentioned as training tool.

In the other books in the series (interviews with top traders,) poker is mentioned in 3 or 4 interviews.

Search "trading" "Goldman" and "Minervini" using the search feature to learn more. I believe Sklansky has been retained by trading firms in the past to teach poker and general EV concepts.

The correlation is well established.

Please note that "losing-poker" and "losing-trading" are likely highly correlated also.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, discipline and odds based decision making are beneficial (necessary) attributes for poker players and investors. No one would argue otherwise.

But it is a stretch to say that the correlation between winning poker and winning investment is "well established". Does anyone know whether Warren Buffet is a good poker player? Is Daniel Negranu a good investor? Has anyone actually studied this issue, or have they simply applied theoretical guesswork?

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let's set one of these up and see how the 2+2ers do trading. There is little doubt winning poker and winning trading are positively correlated.

I'd like to see something structured in at least a 4-month timeframe so the buy-the-breakout, sell-the-breakdown types can't just jump in and get lucky. I also want to be able to go short as well as long, with no leverage. No options. Just pure long or short stock.

Who wants to take participate in this?


[/ QUOTE ]


OK I set it up on Marketwatch.com. Please note I have no experience with the MarketWatch system for setting up this kind of thing. It appears full-featured and ready to go.


The TwoPlusTwo Stock Trading Competition

Here is the structure:

1. 500K starting cash;
2. Long and short stock only-- no options or margin;
3. Start date July 05;
4. End date Sept30 2005;


Here are the details on signing up:

Website:
http://game.marketwatch.com/Competit...titionHome.asp

Competition ID (enter):
twoplustwoevent001

Password:
fishyfish

Notes:
Before you get to the competition pages, you need to sign up on MarketWatch. When get past that and you sign up for the event, you will asked to enter your actual name and a screen name. This event is set up so your actual name will never display. For the screen name, be sure to use your 2+2 screen name so your posts here and your portfolio results match "by screen name", for anyone that wants to look you up.

Sign up between now and July 04.

Trading commences July 05 2005 and ends September 30 2005.

After September 30 2005, there can only be one winner.

The winner gets to say without bragging that (s)he's the best stock trader on 2+2.

I am cross-posting this on the Psych forum, where I post alot. Anyone else that frequents other forums with some regularity (Theory would be great) are invited to cross-post a link to this thread so it gets around. Maybe we can get 100 or 200 involved here.

Link them to this post since it has all the info in one place needed for background info, and login/participation.

Good luck to all.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Regarding correlation, note I said "poker and trading", by this meaning the mechanical, system-type trading approach, not "poker and investing" per se.

I have not seen a single study on this poker:trading correlation, so my assertion is pure theory and in fact "science fiction" at this time. I do believe my assertion to be correct.

Once place where poker, trading and investing intersect heavily is Behavioral Finance

Take a look at the "Self Attribution Bias", which for most people is applied to every win and every loss they experience:

The Self-Attribution Bias

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding correlation, note I said "poker and trading", by this meaning the mechanical, system-type trading approach, not "poker and investing" per se.

I have not seen a single study on this poker:trading correlation, so my assertion is pure theory and in fact "science fiction" at this time. I do believe my assertion to be correct.

Once place where poker, trading and investing intersect heavily is Behavioral Finance

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your hypothesis. I'm just nitpicking.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know whether Warren Buffet is a good poker player?

[/ QUOTE ]

He and Bill Gates are said to be excellent Bridge Players. Gates plays 3/6 limit poker.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know whether Warren Buffet is a good poker player?

[/ QUOTE ]

He and Bill Gates are said to be excellent Bridge Players. Gates plays 3/6 limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all the proof I need. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Hi Dan,
This could be a fun deal. Virtual trading equals playing poker with play money. However, if someone wanted to improve their money poker game then market trading with real money works better because now all the issues of fear, greed, tilt all come into play. I've never been a great fan of paper trading because the emotions don't factor in. fwiw

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Dan,
This could be a fun deal. Virtual trading equals playing poker with play money. However, if someone wanted to improve their money poker game then market trading with real money works better because now all the issues of fear, greed, tilt all come into play. I've never been a great fan of paper trading because the emotions don't factor in. fwiw

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree to an extent. However, you can reload quickly and easily in play money poker. In this competition, you would not be able to reload your account. So you will have a capital preservation incentive that does not exist in play money poker. This discourages wild risk taking (maniac play), to some extent.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Trader tilt is very real. And a huge issue to understand and manage. Under real conditions a typical new student would play ONLY long stock with no margin because of all the factors you list.

If you cannot win at [long stock/no margin] you are just adding variables and kidding yourself if you add anything (for example, short stock) as an additional, allowable type of trade in your method.

Yes, trading play money is not the same--- not nearly. The situation and effect is analogous to playing play money on Party vs. cash on Party.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

[ QUOTE ]

The TwoPlusTwo Stock Trading Competition


Competition ID (enter):
twoplustwoevent001



[/ QUOTE ]

Fair warning here, some posters in stud forum ran a little private tourney and put 2+2 in the name so everyone would know it was the right one, and the kind gentlemen at 2+2 were nice enough to report him to the site for using thier name w/o permission.

Maybe consider changing the name of it so it doesn't get shutdown for using the 2+2 name in the identifier. I mean god forbid we wouldn't wnat to infringe on their name.

Just a heads-up.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I'll check with Mason on this and get the final word.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I checked with Mason, and pleased be advised:

This is not an official Two Plus Two function and Two Plus Two Publishing LLC takes no responsibility.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Can you give me any tips on where to go once I sign up. I flat out have no clue what to do. If its too complicated to explain and I have to do all this by myself just tell me and that will be OK, I just dont even know where to click let alone how to invest money. Thanks.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

On Marketwatch, this is set up to start July 05 so there is nothing to do till then except sign up.

After July 05 there will be new functionality available to add, change, and delete items in the mock portfolio created for you. You will also be able to view everyone else's portfolio and daily/weekly/total portfolio peformance. Etc.

Please note this is a first-time thing so just expect some glitches as we get started.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I signed up but don't think I got asked for a screen name anywhere.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

im in. i screwed up during signup and my name is blackchip662

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Tomorrow is the kickoff, good luck to all. I've got 4 positions I'm ready to establish Tuesday July 5.

Event name:
twoplustwoevent001

Password:
fishyfish

URL:
http://game.marketwatch.com/Competit...titionHome.asp

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

I'm in also. Can we have more than 1 portfolio?

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

This is brand new experience with MarketWatch, I believe it is 1 portfolio for the entire contest-- 500K no rebuys, with a 90 day tournament length.

Expect glitches, this way you will not be surprised.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

Well, this should be fun, until i go broke in a week.

Re: 2+2 Stock Trading Competition
 

i am in....Larkin330, used a poker screen name instead of this one. Dont be surprised if i come in last, but i am hoping to learn some and have fun. good luck all.