Two Plus Two Older Archives - I F-in HATE deuces!!!

Two Plus Two Older Archives (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/index.php)

- Small Stakes Hold'em (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15)

- - I F-in HATE deuces!!! (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=280375)

I F-in HATE deuces!!!

UTG is loose, BB is fit or fold.
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB raises, UTG 3-bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (15.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.5 (All-In), MP2 calls, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
MP2 checks, Hero bets

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

what happened to UTG?

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

okay fixed sorry about that

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

I don't like it. The only thing that makes me hesitate is that the post is so big. But i think your heading for a world a hurt here. even if you not beat now by a PP, 8, or 6, you are 50/50 against a flush draw. Anyone with 2 live cards is 25% is beat you by the river. Then there's UTG how could have the pot locked up already. I think you have to call UTG .50 bet. If you want a way to win you could bluff raise the turn if something low hits and you have a chance to clear the field.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

Having a hand like 22 with a reckless short-stack at the table can be annoying sometimes.

On the flop, it's unfortunate that there are so many ways you could go on to lose even if you're currently best (some hands you're beating at the moment are a favorite over you), but the line you took seems all right to me.

I'm not really sure what's best. I don't like any of my options on the flop.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

Is calling 2 additional bets pre-flop correct with 22 even if the UTG is loose?

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

[ QUOTE ]
even if you not beat now by a PP, 8, or 6, you are 50/50 against a flush draw. Anyone with 2 live cards is 25% is beat you by the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since Hero could get counterfeited by another 8, I think he's actually in worse shape than this against the hands you mention.

However, since any hand Hero is beating has outs against him, betting to try to thin the field could have its benefits.

I'm not sure if it's worth it or not. I do kind of have my doubts.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
even if you not beat now by a PP, 8, or 6, you are 50/50 against a flush draw. Anyone with 2 live cards is 25% is beat you by the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since Hero could get counterfeited by another 8, I think he's actually in worse shape than this against the hands you mention.

However, since any hand Hero is beating has outs against him, betting to try to thin the field could have its benefits.

I'm not sure if it's worth it or not. I do kind of have my doubts.

[/ QUOTE ]
It would be a lot easier if there was a full bet into me, then I could raise and actually give people behind me worse odds to call.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

I fold preflop when it comes back two to me. I'd say someone has another pair here probably 30 to 40% of the time. Everyone else has live cards with which to kick my ass on any street.

Small PP's are fine to try and hit cheap sets with on the flop, but you can't do enough with them postflop when they miss to warrant this call.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop when it comes back two to me. I'd say someone has another pair here probably 30 to 40% of the time. Everyone else has live cards with which to kick my ass on any street.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would not be a reason for folding.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

Preflop: I think it's close, but I would fold. Here are my reasons:
A) BB might recognize the possibility that UTG is steaming because he's low on chips, and is therefore more likely than usual to cap it.

B) You have almost no implied odds from UTG if you flop a set.

C) You have little implied odds with the fit or fold BB (assuming he doesn't have a big pair)

D) There's a good chance the button will fold. A lot of players will limp with iffy hands on the button, but muck them if facing heavy action.

As it turns out, you got the best possible outcome by getting 4: 1 for 3 bets with only 3 opponents you can collect from on later streets. Worst case scenario, you get about 3: 1 for 4 bets with the chance of getting implied odds from only 2 players.

Postflop you may be able to run a succesful bluff, but there is a lot going against you. Even if everyone folds, you still are at best about even money for the main pot, and there is a decent chance you are totally crushed by an overpair. Also, with such a big pot, your opponents will be more tempted to stay in which will make it harder to bluff (this may not hold true for the BB, but it probably will for the other players in the pot).

In summary, by calling you are putting in a lot of bets with poor implied odds to flop a set. Furthermore, if you miss your set it will be hard for you to win on a bluff, because even if you get the main pot heads-up with the all-in player you are at best 50/50 to win.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
even if you not beat now by a PP, 8, or 6, you are 50/50 against a flush draw. Anyone with 2 live cards is 25% is beat you by the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since Hero could get counterfeited by another 8, I think he's actually in worse shape than this against the hands you mention.

However, since any hand Hero is beating has outs against him, betting to try to thin the field could have its benefits.

I'm not sure if it's worth it or not. I do kind of have my doubts.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point and almost every turn card makes another 3 cards that counterfeit us on the river.

Re: I F-in HATE deuces!!!

I don't like the preflop two-bet/reraise call.

If you do, what situations do you come across where this is a good idea?