Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Bluffing is one, if not the biggest, leak in my game. I do it too often and usually at the wrong times. Frankly, I feel that I am more profitable when I remove bluffing completely from my game. Of course, this strategy isn't optimal therefore I need to learn how to bluff in a +EV way.

So please help me out by either posting HH's that display good bluffing techniques, provide words of wisdom, bluffing theory, whatever. Just please help me repair this horrible leak of mine. Thoughts?

Thanks,
HEK

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero ($594)
CO ($1078.27)
Button ($588)
SB ($914.8)
BB ($573.1)
UTG ($1158.21)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls $6, Hero calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($24) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $20</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $20.

Turn: ($64) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $40</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $95</font>, SB calls $55.

River: ($254) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $125</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: $379

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 4h 8h (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins $379. </font>

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Kagame,

Can you explain your thought process with this hand? For instance, was this opponent-dependent? Was the flop call a delay-bluff? Why fire again on the river if he has show so much strength? On the surface this play looks quite a bit ballsy so I'd like to know why you decided this hand and this opponent was the right spot.

Thx,
HEK

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero ($594)
CO ($1078.27)
Button ($588)
SB ($914.8)
BB ($573.1)
UTG ($1158.21)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls $6, Hero calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($24) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $20</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $20.

Turn: ($64) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $40</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $95</font>, SB calls $55.

River: ($254) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $125</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: $379

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 4h 8h (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins $379. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that really a good bluff? What on earth are you representing? I have a feeling you had roughly the best hand (he definitely didn't have a pair of kings, he probably had a missed flush draw, so he might've had you slightly outkicked, or randomly hit a different pair on the way to his flush draw). This bluff is NOT good though, because pot is really small and you are representing nothing.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a feeling you had roughly the best hand ... so he might've had you slightly outkicked, or randomly hit a different pair on the way to his flush draw).

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't hit a pair. Kagame has no pair/no draw which leads me to another question: why bother bluffing with nothing? Shouldn't a bluffer always leave himself outs?

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Why bother bluffing a pot with no money in it? It's not like you are tied to this pot or anything, have a lot on the line...

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

It got mixed/controversial responses on the board, but look up Gift of Gabs Commerce 10/20 hand a while back...I think that is a good bluff.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

I limp with something, others limp behind, bb makes some raise that's much too small to chase me out, so I call, everyone else calls, five to the flop. Flop is ace high and I have some sort of a draw at something. BB bets some amount, I call, everyone else folds. Turn is a blank and BB checks, so I take the pot.

Sorry for the lack of detail... you can still follow the logic behind the hand without it though. I call on the flop because I have a strong draw, any my opponents absolutely hate folding, so there's no point in raising. I figure someone must have an ace. But everyone folds and the preflop raiser checks the turn, at which point I realize that he doesn't have (or can beat) an ace and assumes that I have it.

Here is one... good? I don´t know...
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

SB in this hand is of average aggr. and skill. Once he checked the flop I put him on either AK or or a med. PP.

MP:s underbet is his way of trying to steal pots...



Hero ($574.34)
Button ($327.5)
SB ($202.45)
BB ($127.55)
UTG ($352)
MP ($588.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $2, Hero calls $2, Button calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $9</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $8, Hero calls $8, Button folds.

Flop: ($34) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $30</font>, SB calls $30, MP folds.

Turn: ($99) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $65</font>, SB calls $65.

River: ($229) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $125</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: $354

Re: Here is one... good? I don´t know...
 

But why would you fire again on the river here though? He raises the flop then calls your big reraise and your almost pot-sized turn bet. It don't look like a draw to me. To me it says "I have a Q and I'm not layin' it down." So why bet the river?

This is what I'm talking about when I say "show me a good bluff." In Kagame and MoDOH's hands, there were clearly succussful but I think, in both cases, they were lucky not to get called down on the end or c/r'd on a previous street.

So we have all heard that bluffing is about telling story about your hand that you want your opponent to believe. Does anyone have a hand like that where you can walk me through the entire thought process? It would help a great deal since, as I said, my bluff stories suck.

btw, AZK I'll look for that commerce thread. Thanks.

Re: Here is one... good? I don´t know...
 

[ QUOTE ]

btw, AZK I'll look for that commerce thread. Thanks.


[/ QUOTE ]

if / when you find it, please bump it? ty.

Re: Here is one... good? I don´t know...
 

What is the exact spelling of his username? I'm having trouble finding it.

Re: Here is one... good? I don´t know...
 

giftofgab

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

representing the ace heads up can always be an opportunity to bluff in either limit or no limit

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

i have a bluff story... it was called in the end but i had literally everyone at the table fooled and i think it was personally a horrible call by him that happened to be correct this one time...

I have Ad7d, and I limp on the button (perhaps questionable to limp on the button, that's another story)... 6 to the flop in a 5/5 NL game.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

It's checked around to me, so I bet out 35... The tightest player at the table, UTG (1000), who I have covered, immediately check raises to 85. Everyone at the table folds, I call... this was the most questionable decision of the hand. It didn't occur to me until after I uttered "call" that my 2 pair or trips would be no good, heh.

The turn is the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], for a board of A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I decide that of course because of his puny check raise, this is the perfect time to represent spades... so he bets out 100. I put him on a set or top two... I raise to 400. MY thinking here was that he is absolutely calling the turn, absolutely, for redraws. If a higher spade falls, and he has the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], he will bet (he's a straightforward player). If the board pairs, I will instantaneously ditch the hand. I raise to 400 because I misread his stack... I thought he had 1400 (black looked like a purple), and I wanted to leave myself enough to go all in with SIGNIFICANT fold equity on the river.

River is a complete blank, he checks and I go all in for his remaining 520 or so, which I thought would be closer to a grand.

He agonizes for a long time, says I know you have the flush but I'm stuck a lot of money so I Call... he shows AK, with the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He told me he called because he had the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and he didn't think I would just go all in w/o the nuts like that.... haha I didn't realize tight players assume everyone are as tight as they are!

Anyway the thinkiung was I put him on a VERY specific hand and I thought I could represent a specific one so well that he would not only pay me money on the turn, but deefinitely fold the river... I made sure (though incorrectly) to leave enough money to have fold equity on the river, knowing he'd call the turn.

I think bluffs need to represent specific hands, and I think you need to think about maximizing profit while maintaining enough folding equity, etc. I still stand by thinkign this was a good play, but so it goes... so there's my story about a big bluff and what I was thinking.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

a good quote from the recent "top 5 attributes" thread

[ QUOTE ]

Also, nobody can master bluffing, it is a risk every time it is done. If you bluff too much, you will undoubtedly lose money (the same is true for the opposite, however).

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Here is one... good? I don´t know...
 

It looks like it might be in the newer archives already, basically multiway pot, gab flops a double gutter, someone bets clears the field except for him, turn doesn't help gab, guy overbets, gab got the msg that he was protecting a hand rather than sitting on a monster (I think the board was AT88 2 tone i think). River brings the flush that gab doesn't have, the guy now checks and gabs bets the pot or so I think. This is a rough memory of this hand. The point is that you have to know your opponent. Gab knew this guy was nitty and would lay down a hand like AK...

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

[ QUOTE ]
representing the ace heads up can always be an opportunity to bluff in either limit or no limit

[/ QUOTE ]

You can certainly TRY to represent the ace whenever it flops, but you won't always be given credit for it, and sometimes your opponent will have the hand you're trying to represent.

In the example I posted, with five people to the flop it should be "obvious" that someone has an ace. And when I called there were still three players to act behind me, so I can't be calling with trash with the hopes of launching a delayed bluff... it turns out I only had some straight draw or something, but my play looks completely consistent with a made hand to everyone else. And when my opponent gives up control of the betting, it's telling me that he's giving up on the hand. So my bluff here is good because my previous action in the hand is consistent with the hand I'm representing, and my opponent is showing weakness.

Re: Here is one... good? I don´t know...
 

I think gab picked up a flush draw on the turn. Otherwise I think he was planning to fold to the big bet at that point.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Since he won't bother, I will - I do this sort of thing often.

If someone is raising preflop &gt;10% of the time; if someone is auto-betting every flop, and; if someone is checking the turn if they've missed the flop, I will call preflop having made the decision in advance to bluff call the flop some % of the time (and i bluff raise some %, too) and bet the turn. If they fire twice a high enough % of the time that their hand range consists of relatively few hands that can call a raise I will start bluff raising the turn some % of the time, too (whether I follow through on the river depends largely on the hand range I assign them after they call my raise and the river card!). Things like this make a big difference when playing shorthanded. Preflop and on the flop you're jostling over small pots and setting up larger ones. Make sure you win enough of the small pots that you aren't automatically donating money to aggressive preflop/flop players by calling their raises and folding if you miss. It is also easier to setup larger pots where your hand range(s) has/have a significant edge over your opponent's when they are drawing erroneous conclusions about what you're likely to be holding based on limited information (and poor reasoning skills, of course), something almost every opponent is prone to doing. Manipulate your hand ranges. Make them interact with your opponent's so that you have an edge. That's the game.

This is all you're getting out of me. There's more to think about against sophisticated opponents and when it comes to turn/river bluffs. Maybe some other time.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Obviously you should not try to represent the ace everytime, but it is one of the best times to bluff if you opp is aceless.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

openraise in emp/mp with anything from 46o to aks.

if 2-3 to the flop with position on me, fire a weakish continuation bet. one/two callers.

turn check (giving up), someone makes a 1/2 - 3/4 pot bet, i check-raise the new pot size, and take it down.

i am surprised at how seldomly i am shown even a moderately strong hand if picked off, and almost never anything marginal. so i can only assume they are folding and thus the line is working.

when it gets interesting is when i am called, stacks are sufficiently deep, and i am posed with the question of whether or not to fire off again huge on the river to take i down.

usually though the turn move takes it down, or i am giving up, unless i think they are on an obvious draw. if that is the case and the river bricks, then it is bombs away with 7 high.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I limp with something, others limp behind, bb makes some raise that's much too small to chase me out, so I call, everyone else calls, five to the flop. Flop is ace high and I have some sort of a draw at something. BB bets some amount, I call, everyone else folds. Turn is a blank and BB checks, so I take the pot.

Sorry for the lack of detail... you can still follow the logic behind the hand without it though. I call on the flop because I have a strong draw, any my opponents absolutely hate folding, so there's no point in raising. I figure someone must have an ace. But everyone folds and the preflop raiser checks the turn, at which point I realize that he doesn't have (or can beat) an ace and assumes that I have it.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think the best advice I can give u is play the hand your opponent put you on. The above hand is a great exemple of that.

I also had trouble whit bluffing early in my "poker carrer". I was playing to tight and not bluffing enough. That also lead to not getting full value off my strong hands. I started to memorize how individual opponent were reacting to my play on hand I was strong but could'nt get paid. Then, when the situation was right and I knew I could represent a stronger hand, I started picking up a lot of pots.

my 2 cents


-Happy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

GoG hand

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...t=all&amp;vc=1

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Gooood thread. Vanveen explain kagame's bluff well.

Here's 2 different examples.... in the first I was defending/stealing against someone who was raising too much.

The second I was raising too much and had a good inkling that BB was just playing back at me.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

BB ($650.35)
UTG ($617.55)
MP ($465.2)
Button ($193.63)
Hero ($414.8)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $28</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $22.

Flop: ($64) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $50</font>, UTG calls $50.

Turn: ($164) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $122</font>, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $286



[/ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

BB ($421.9)
UTG ($197.4)
Hero ($434.8)
Button ($686)
SB ($207.8)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $11.

Flop: ($32) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $155</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: $247

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. Hero wins $247. </font>

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

please post more :-)

i was on the road all day, and im glad someone stepped in and explained shorthanded aggressiveness against players that bet light and will make laydowns.

since he did so well, ill just leave it at that and comment on others hands and maybe post something else controversial

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...amp;PHPSESSID=

Thats one of mine.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why bother bluffing a pot with no money in it? It's not like you are tied to this pot or anything, have a lot on the line...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what makes it a good bluff. The opponent will think the same thing, therefore he "can't" be bluffing.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

I guess...just seems like a wasted bluff opportunity.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

i didnt read that whole thread, but his bluff at the end is nice, but his turn is horible.

[ QUOTE ]
GoG hand

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...t=all&amp;vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

[ QUOTE ]
i didnt read that whole thread, but his bluff at the end is nice, but his turn is horible.

[ QUOTE ]
GoG hand

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...t=all&amp;vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is his turn so bad? He figured his outs were relatively disguised, so he would get paid off.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

seems like a perfect turn card to bluff, and if you get reraised your outs arent good anyway

its theoretically better to draw to the nuts and attempt to take control of pots when you have non nut outs that you dont mind being pushed off of

this isnt my reasoning, its from the likes of limon, ciaffone, etc

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

as an interesting contradiction to this see GoG's latestposted hand, bluffing the missed double gutter on a paired board...

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Some hand I played today at 2/4...

Two people limp, sb calls, I check in BB with K2o.

Flop is Q53 checked around.

Turn is 4. SB bets $5, I call, limpers fold.

River 7, SB bets $4, I raise to $24.

Nice and simple... my bluff represents a specific hand, my actions on every street are consistent with the hand I'm representing on the end, and it is reasonable for me to assume that my opponent does not have the same hand that I am representing. I'm risking $24 to win $30 on the end and I have every reason to believe I will take the pot more than half of the time. +EV.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

I try to bluff simply when I think the other player will fold enough of the time to make my bluff profitable. There are too many situational applications for this to list here. I think bluffing should be profitable when thinking clearly about it in terms of EV. Then its simply a matter of finding +EV opportunities. Many opponents look at your play through their own eyes. The same bluffs work time and again against the same type of opponents in the same situations. In some cases its when the bluffs stop working that biggest rewards follow, after adpating.

Taking this to the next logical level, you sometimes dont need good cards to make money, just good situations.
Bingo

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

I also bluff rarely, as I normally play against weak enough competition that bluffing isn't profitable. But when a big pot arises, sometimes I can't help myself.

Here's a hand from the 2-4 NL game at Foxwoods:

I'm BB with Qd-7d. UTG posts a straddle for no real reason, and he's not been playing wildly at all. Three callers, so I call, and UTG raises it to $53 total. Two limpers call, so I decide to call for whatever reason. Flop comes J-10-4 rainbow. SB checks, I think for a while, check, and the raiser fires $100 into the ~$220 pot. Two folds to me, and I go in the tank, thinking how I can steal this. I give him a look, tell him he either has "what I think he has, or what I don't want him to have"... and call. Turn is a blank 2, and I fairly quickly say "$250". I haven't even put my chips into the pot yet when he angrily flings his cards across the table, revealing what I thought: A-K.

Of course, I can't flip my cards over fast enough, and the guy tells me what a "stupid play" it was.

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

Don't mean to resurrect this thread, but I just pulled off this one and thought I'd share.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($1219.25)
BB ($1559.75)
UTG ($1127)
UTG+1 ($2283)
MP1 ($980)
MP2 ($1032)
MP3 ($1041)
CO ($1161.75)
Hero ($968)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $10, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $20</font>, Hero calls $20, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $10.

Flop: ($75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $40</font>, Hero calls $40, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($155) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $100</font>, Hero calls $100.

River: ($355) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $250</font>, CO folds.

Final Pot: $605

Re: Show me a good bluff....PLEASE!
 

recently played live hand:

tight player raises in EP, three callers, i call with 45[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

flop: j67 two hearts

bet, call

turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

check, pot, fold.

the key to bluffing for me is this:

Bluffing is a tool used against players who are too good for the conventional array of weapons (value bets, position raises etc.). if someone will call you with one pair to the felt, you're a fool for trying to bluff him. once players learn to lay down hands you must punish them both for the times and places where they are overly cautions (mostly semibluffs) and overly attached to their hands (value bets). FWIW, even at the bigger games i've played the vast majority of your money comes from players who like one pair too much.

fim