Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

Blinds 200-400 Ante 50...1053 started. 230 people left, avg stack 11,000.

Villian open raises in the Cut-Off. He has a bunch of highly stacked 100 and 25 dollar chips which I think is around 6000 at the time. Folded to me in BB, I have K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. My stack is 6700. I think about moving in but am not sure how much villians stack is and dont feel like asking because it seems weak and no matter what he is getting good pot odds on an all-in call. Also, I read his 5xBB raise as a decent hand with some showdown value 66-JJ, AK-AT, KQ...not sure what else. So, I end up calling 1600 more with 3100 in the pot. I think the PF call is right but I am more than open to criticism. The flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]...I have 4700 in chips left. What is my play if he has 4000 left? What is my play if he has 5000 left?

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

I push this flop, if he has the A so be it, otherwise, it's a very difficult call for him.

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

Assuming he has me covered is there any merit to betting 2500 to look stronger?

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

I'd be calling preflop with the intention of pushing any flop, so I thin think this is an easy push.

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

Gavin do u think there is a chance that a lead of 2500 has more of a chance to be read as an A than a push?

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have 4700 in chips left. What is my play if he has 4000 left? What is my play if he has 5000 left?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious to learn why the +/-1000 in your opponent's chip-stack would affect your decision? BTW, it's not in me to make a pre-flop decision to push the flop when I have more than 7xBB remaining, so I would be making a decision here (and given the flush draw and A and being out of position, it would be a large bet -- $2500 sounds good, so does all-in)...but an extra 1000 chips in my opponent's stack would not weigh into that decision, as I would see us as pretty much even regardless (eg: one of us is going to be dead after this hand...whether we're both still playing, with 300 or 700 chips, is not very important IMHO). What am I missing?

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

The only reason I gave the 2 different stack sizes was because during the hand I thought he only had 4000 in chips making a check-raise pretty tough...if he has me covered I think I have a chance to check. Have him bet 2000 and raise the rest of my chips, which shows a lot of strength.

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

I'm gonna take this to mean you pushed and he called with something less than an ace. I would push with Ax on the flop just the same as I would with any 2 cards that I would call 1/3 of my stack with preflop. I guess it pretty much depends on whether you think this player is aware of the stop and go as a viable play with your size stack. If he is, then you should fold this preflop.

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason I gave the 2 different stack sizes was because during the hand I thought he only had 4000 in chips making a check-raise pretty tough...if he has me covered I think I have a chance to check. Have him bet 2000 and raise the rest of my chips, which shows a lot of strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're overestimating your opponents ability to fold ANYTHING here after investing such a huge chunk of his stack. You should be pushing this flop and he should most definitely be calling...board be damned.

Pep.

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

why are you pushing Ax here? Just to make stop and go's work? or do u feel pushing is better than check calling?

If it is just to make stop and go's work, do u push Ax here in online tournaments where most of the people will not be observant enough to realize this.

Re: Hand from WSOP 2000 NL
 

If you do'nt maximise the pressure on your opponent here with this flop you should not have called pre flop. All-in, he has'nt got enough chips for a check raise to work and you need to maximise your chances of winning with a bet he can fold to.

regards

Ross

RESULTS
 

I bet 2500, he thinks and puts the rest of his chips in...I call. He has TT Brick, Brick...thats it. Was my pre-flop call correct? What do u guys think about betting 2500? I did it because it seemed stronger at the time than all-in. Any opinions?

Re: RESULTS
 

Maybe a crazy thought:

Other than KK and QQ, what hands are you trying to push him off of here? If he has an ace, he's calling and that's bad for you, but if he has any pair below QQ, you are the favorite. With TT, he has pot odds to call so I suppose you'd rather he just fold, but I'd rather take the shot at the rest of his chips as the favorite.

Since he's not folding an ace, is it terrible to check and call, so that he DOESN'T fold JJ/TT/99?

Edited to say checkraise allin if he doesn't put you allin, but get to him to commit his chips if he has JJ-99.

Re: RESULTS
 

The play on the flop was a Check.

If he bets more than 1/2 his stack fold.. If he bets less than 1/2 his stack, you come over the top all in with the check-raise. Also trust your read.. I don't think he best more than 1/2 his stack with those 10-10's after getting called preflop.

If he's a decent player, there's no way he can call the raise IMO unless he has a great read on you.


After calling pre-flop, Check-Fold or Check-Raise was the play, IMO.

If you weren't willing to make that play, you probably should have just folded preflop.

I don't like betting 2500 where you did. That's as good as going all-in.. You are pot committed to call if he comes over the top of you.

Best options: #1. Check-Raise, #2. Check-Fold (if he pot commits himself, he probably has the ace),

Re: RESULTS
 

there is an argument for checking, but it's not so you can get all-in with 99-JJ. you're barely ahead of those hands, so they easily have the odds to call, so you don't want them in the pot. the hands you want to trap into betting are hands like KJ that have missed completely and would be drawing very thin against you. i think this is a viable play. villain should be opening a decent number of non-pair, non-ace hands, and i'd expect a continuation bet a lot of the time.

however, if it goes check-check, the hand becomes much more difficult to play well. the chance to fold out a hand like TT (or at least try....) is pretty valuable, so i like a bet.

playing this as a stop-n-go would not have occured to me. i like it for the most part, but i think pushing into a rainbow A-high flop is going to leave you drawing dead a large percentage of the time. i think calling pre-flop and pushing any non-A board (i would also check if i flopped a pair) is a better line.

Re: RESULTS
 

That makes sense. I was putting him on a tighter range of hands than I should have. I like checking even more now. I realize you can get KK-99 to fold some of the time to this bet, but his calling range is probably any ace and some of those pairs some of the time. That range crushes you and I don't think getting TT to fold some of the time makes up for what you miss by not inducing a bet from a worse hand assuming his betting range is much bigger.

You want TT to fold but aren't hating getting all your money in against it.

Check-check, blank on turn, bet 1500?

Re: RESULTS
 

Do any of you guys fold this hand preflop? It just seems like your at best a coinflip here, and most of the time way behind.

Re: RESULTS
 

Ok, I didn't realize villian was in the cut off. So this obviously makes his raise look vulnerable.