got caught speeding
 

sets on a monotone board, i cant seem to fold them, and was playing with the idea of never doing so ever again at 6max

hows my line

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero ($636.45)</font>
<font color="#C00000">MP ($701)</font>
Button ($345.85)
SB ($884.65)
BB ($608)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
Hero calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $27</font>, Button calls $27, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $21.

Flop: ($90) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $65</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $200</font>, MP calls $609 (All-In), Hero calls $409.45 (All-In).

Final Pot: $1373.45

Re: got caught speeding
 

I really don't like this play against the vast majority of opponents.

If you explain your thinking regarding the flop c/r, it might help with the analysis.

Also, what is your perception of villains hand range? (before and after he pushes)

Re: got caught speeding
 

sigh

so suggest something better

its 6max he could have anything, probably an overpair or AK with the Ac

once i check raise im committed is the thing, why not comment on whether that is a terribly play or if it induces an all in from an overpair with a club

good grief

Re: got caught speeding
 

i dont understand how the title of this post has anything to do with the hand or why this hand is at all interesting...

Re: got caught speeding
 

Speed:
Speed refers to the level of aggressiveness with which you play. Fast play is more aggressive, slow play is more passive. Good players may change speeds so that their play will not be so predictable.

http://www.seriouspoker.com/dictionary.html#speed

I've just been playing alot more shorthanded 600NL and there are spots where I'm not sure how aggressively to play certain hands, or the likelihood I'll be good if I get action, even if I have a big hand. Its not exactly a very secure-feeling spot in a full ring game, I am always cautious with this sort of board. But I'm playing much more LAGish shorthanded...

Would this hand be more interesting if he just called the flop check raise? How about if I didnt raise enough to give myself decent odds if he already had a flush?

How about if I said I'd been beating up on the player for the past hour, cause thats how I do things in 6MAX.

Re: got caught speeding
 

Kagame I think you get smashed here unless the board pairs 2 out of 3 times. I could be wrong but based on the little info provided I will give my reasoning. I don't want to hear later about the player being a donk or some other crap that would effect the decision making process.

I will try to be Villian. Hero limps utg I raise Hero calls. You gave no perception of Hero so we will consider Hero decent not great not poor. Hero calling screams of pair suited A or Trapping play.6 handed possibly suited connectors. Flop comes low and suited. I bet Hero raises. what would Hero Raise me with? First thoghts AA- KK with the flush draw second thought 88-QQ trying to take it down right now, Third a set 4th the flush. So what would I want to put all my money in with on this board after a raise This only leaves me with a few hands personally for what I have invested 777, AA with flush draw maybe KK or the flush.

Why. If Hero was trying to trap with KK or AA I am assuming the possibility he has the flush draw and that doesn't bother me or not that much. If Hero has is trying to take it down right now with smaller pair that doesn't bother me either. A set, that might bother me. Two thoughts one if Hero has a set would he give me one free card believing he is most likely ahead and try to get a little more money out of me and see what the turn brings before trying to take it down? If he has the flush how high would it be? I have to give serious consideration to A X suited or a set. This doesn't apparently bother me to much So I usually either have the flush or 777 to make the call because once it happens I know it is all going in on the turn for sure without another club.I move now, I am either way ahead with set or flush or I am drawing to the nut flush hoping Hero has underpair. Two out of three times usually win or I have outs to the nuts.

This isn't perfect just a few thoughts.

Re: got caught speeding
 

Personal opinion is that this is partypoker and assuming no reads you can figure your opponent probably doesn't play well, when you're behind to anything but top set you're a 2-1 dog, there is dead money in the pot... alot of it. On partypoker i don't hate this line at all and have taken it numerous times myself...

plus ev

Re: got caught speeding
 

I don't mind this line. If you're up against a flush you're up against a flush. Your opponents flop bet can bet just about any 2 cards. By the time your opponent goes allin, you have to call in case you already have the best hand, or in case you are currently beat you are close to having odds to call, so you basically just tied yourself to the pot. But you want to make a hand pay to draw if he has to draw, You also don't want something like A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] to take down the pot while you are trying to fill up.

Re: got caught speeding
 

LOL Kagame, no need to be rude [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Bet pot on flop, hope to get raised. even red AA might raise you, depends on your image. Do whatever you can to get maybe 1/3 of their stack in and see the turn card.

If a non pairing club comes, c/f - you've been outdrawn on a 4/1 shot, move on.
If a pairing club comes, bet 1/3 pot
If a pairing non club comes, check, see what happens
If blank comes, do whatever will get them to push or just dont give odds for the naked A to draw cheaply.

Maybe I just play more cautiously post flop but I try not to scare off hands that might try to semi bluff me out on the turn or that I might be dominating on the flop anyway.
FWIW, I don't think your play is horrible, I just prefer seeing the turn first my way but hey, maybe I'm wrong - feel free to pick it apart and maybe we both could learn something [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: got caught speeding
 

[ QUOTE ]
If a pairing club comes, bet 1/3 pot


[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason I can't see this ever happening..

Re: got caught speeding
 

yes, yes, i know, it was late...... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: got caught speeding
 

in these short handed games people do make alot more moves, and often assume other people are doing the same

if villain think im an aggressive player in all situations and he has either; an overpair, overs and the nut flush draw, an overpair with a flush draw, a top pair and a decent flush draw, etc; hes probably going to ramble with me if theres a decent chunk of change in the pot

i assume im ahead enough of the time here and that my opponent will be stubborn enough with this range of hands that i have a huge edge with these flops and a set

now, what is the best way of getting money in
if i lead and get raised thats GREAT! if i lead and get called by an Ace of clubs or a flush then thats not so great as it makes me guess on the turn. i hate leading and just getting called on these flops. im out of position and dont know what i want on the turn. ie do i need a board pair or just a non club

check raising huge makes someone with what they consider a huge draw put it in the middle, and it also allows me to have decent odds against the rare flopped flush, which i am way behind on the turn.

i posted another hand like this where we went to the flop 3 or 4 handed and i had top set against a flopped flush and an overpair, in that instance i would have done much better to have led out, as it was i left myself no options

heads up pots in 6max 600 i will continue to try to get it in on the flop, especially oop, in this scenarios until my opponents play changes or i become too predicable and am losing an edge

Re: got caught speeding
 

If I suspect villian is on any kind of flush draw on a monotone flop (J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]-Jx, A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]-Xx, etc.), then I like to pop it on the turn.

Re: got caught speeding
 

[ QUOTE ]
sets on a monotone board, i cant seem to fold them, and was playing with the idea of never doing so ever again at 6max

hows my line

[/ QUOTE ]
Your line is fine. Your are getting 2-1 on your final call, so it is automatic IMO. You are only 2-1 against filling up, and have a good chance to have the best hand.

Re: got caught speeding
 

kagame-

Looks fine to me. I think the idea here is to set it up so that they have the opportunity to make a roughly potsized all-in bet. This will encourage them to make a big semibluff with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Kx or an overpair with a club. Checkraising the flop accomplishes this perfectly.

-muz

Re: got caught speeding
 

I can see villian having the Ac and making a semi-bluff after your check, but once you check-raise and he re-raises it seems more like he is trying to protect against a lone Ac or Kc drawing out against his made flush. Of course, at this point you have to call b/c the pot odds are correct.

Perhaps another line is to stop and go? Say lead for $120-150 on a non-club turn. If I were semi-bluffing, I'd be more likely to fold with only one card to come, and the flop call would also be a little scary. If I were protecting my low made flush, I might hesitate and allow a free showdown.

Re: got caught speeding
 

i think i will definitely try this sort of thing with certain opponents, or if there are multiple people to the flop

gp