Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

In the Intelligent Gambler, a ConjelCo publication, there is a decription of a new book by Lee Jones, Winning Low-Limit Hold'em third edition. If it's better than his previous book it is a must have. Does anyone have any information on this book? ConjelCo is apparently the publisher.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Lee Jones posted this in the CP forums earlier this week:

Hi all -
I thank all of you who recommended my book, Winning Low Limit Hold'em. I'm delighted to announce that we've recently released the third edition.

You can get it at (my publisher)

www.conjelco.com

or at Amazon:

http://tinyurl.com/adrr7

Please note that Amazon seems to be supremely incompetent at getting the book correct in their database, so searches that should find it (e.g. on my name) won't. We've argued with them about this, and so far have met with little success.

Anyway, as regards the book itself...


I honestly hadn't planned on doing a third edition this soon (if ever), but as
you're all aware, somebody hit the Fast Forward button on the poker industry.

Big changes in the new edition:

1. Barry Tanenbaum was kind enough to go over the entire strategy section with a fine-toothed comb. I've made a bunch of changes based on his recommendations, and I think those chapters are now better, clearer, and will give you extra expected value.

2. Because of the huge popularity (and profitability) of no-limit hold'em sit
and go's, I wrote three chapters about those. My friend and former colleague Terrence Chan consulted on that section and it's, IMHO,
ground-breaking work. I'm not aware of anything like it in print and there are some exciting numbers about how much money you can make playing NLH S&Gs.

3. I've cleaned up the prose a lot - removing words like "almost" and
"probably". Barry pointed out that those words were useless unless i told you what the exceptions were. So either I told you what the exceptions were or simply took out the equivocal language. The fact is that the exceptional cases account for a tiny fraction of your earnings. So particularly for novices, there's no reason to confuse them with those exceptions.

4. There's a brand new cover designed by poker player and graphic artist Melissa Hayden. Even has my picture and quotes from Greg Raymer and Antonio Esfandiari on the back (along with a cherished quote I got from Chris Ferguson for the second edition). And the foreword is written by actor, writer, blogger, and poker junkie Wil Wheaton.

And we haven't even raised the price!

By the way, in regards to the complaint that the book is "weak-tight", I have two points to make:

1. Because of Barry Tanenbaum's input, the book advocates giving up less after the flop than previous editions.

2. I still recommend folding more than, say, Ed Miller does. That's because almost all hold'em players, and particularly newbies, tend to go too far in hands. They call too much before the flop, and find too many creative excuses to see a turn card. If you're heads-up against a single player, then yes, you have to be fairly persistent postflop. But against multiple opponents (especially more than two), it's expensive to stick aroudn with marginal hands.

But the bottom line is that I think the third edition is by far the best of the three, and I hope you'll go buy a copy.

Regards,
Lee Jones

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. Barry Tanenbaum was kind enough to go over the entire strategy section with a fine-toothed comb.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a big mark in the book's favor. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum...t/thumbup1.gif

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
4. There's a brand new cover designed by poker player and graphic artist Melissa Hayden.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow.... the cover looks totally awesome.

[/end super deadpan sarcasm]

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

The book was mentioned on the PokerStars website I think.

It said that future orders made with FPP's will be getting the 3rd edition.
I went to the FPP store and it still said '2nd edition' (and even had a pic of the 2nd edition cover) but I ordered it anyway just in hopes that I'll get the 3rd edition.
If they send me the 2nd edition I'll point-out what they said on the web-site and demand a replacement.


Anyway, I'm just getting it because I'm curious about the changes he has made...and because his SNG strategy could be an interesting read as well.

I don't even have my copy of the 2nd edition anymore...I loaned it to a friend several months ago and haven't gotten it back.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

The shoulda gone with something more creative, like:
A) A poker hand and a gun.
B) A picture of the author and a bullet-style listing of each chapter in Times New Roman.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Blurb from Jesus:

[ QUOTE ]
"Don't read this book! If everyone followed the instructions in this book I'd have to find a new line of work. P.S. If you see a long haired homeless guy sleeping on a park bench, please give him a dollar."

-- Chris Ferguson, Champion, 2000 World Series of Poker

[/ QUOTE ]

That's kind of silly.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Actually it's so stupid that if I was the author, I wouldn't include it in the book.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually it's so stupid that if I was the author, I wouldn't include it in the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, really. Much better to have a back cover filled with quotes like:

"Winning Low Limit Hold 'em is a superb book, and Lee Jones is a great guy." - Bill Fillmaff

"You won't find a better book than Winning Low Limit Holdem, and you won't find a greater guy than Lee Jones." - Joey Joe Joe Shabadoo

"Lee Jones really outdid himself with Winning Low Limit Holdem. And in addition to that, he's a great, great guy." - Mike Sexton

"Read this book and you'll be able to rip your opponents apart so haaahd, you'll take everyfin they have! EVERYFIN!" - Tony G

"Just keep publishing new editions when my books are a 3-to-1 favorite to outsell yours. Donkeys always revise and republish." -Phil Hellmuth

"Friggin' waste of trees." - Ed Miller

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Actually, question..Im just starting on Pokerstars...do u collect FPPs at a pretty decent pace? Some places you accrue points rather quickly...Im only asking as PS has the best points store.

(Wow does this question sound retarded)

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, question..Im just starting on Pokerstars...do u collect FPPs at a pretty decent pace? Some places you accrue points rather quickly...Im only asking as PS has the best points store.

(Wow does this question sound retarded)

[/ QUOTE ]

They accrue fairly slow unless you play 3/6 or higher and play a lot of tables. If you play $20 buy in tournys they come fairly fast also but if you're like me and play .5/1, 1/2 and $10 SNGs they come pretty slow.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

You build them fast. I have like a gazillion points. This explains all the Tom McEvoy & Gary Carson in my library.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

They accumulate quickly.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, question..Im just starting on Pokerstars...do u collect FPPs at a pretty decent pace? Some places you accrue points rather quickly...Im only asking as PS has the best points store.

(Wow does this question sound retarded)

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, they rack up pretty quick. I never can order enuf stuff to keep their numbes down - gotta cull them on fpp tourneys.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]

"Just keep publishing new editions when my books are a 3-to-1 favorite to outsell yours. Donkeys always revise and republish." -Phil Hellmuth

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

I'll buy this one, but dear lord what a horrible cover.

And the Ferguson quote is so stupid I can't help but feeling embarrassed everytime I read it.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll buy this one, but dear lord what a horrible cover.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 1980's called and they want their goofy cover art back.




Also the 1990's called and want their horrible jokes back.

OMGZ U GUYZ R SOOOO FUNNY!!!
 

Keep it up!!

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
The 1980's called and they want their goofy cover art back.

Also the 1990's called and want their horrible jokes back.

[/ QUOTE ]

as long as the info is updated for the 2000s... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

The Ferguson quote was used in the previous edition.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]

"Winning Low Limit Hold 'em is a superb book, and Lee Jones is a great guy." - Bill Fillmaff

"You won't find a better book than Winning Low Limit Holdem, and you won't find a greater guy than Lee Jones." - Joey Joe Joe Shabadoo

"Lee Jones really outdid himself with Winning Low Limit Holdem. And in addition to that, he's a great, great guy." - Mike Sexton

"Read this book and you'll be able to rip your opponents apart so haaahd, you'll take everyfin they have! EVERYFIN!" - Tony G

"Just keep publishing new editions when my books are a 3-to-1 favorite to outsell yours. Donkeys always revise and republish." -Phil Hellmuth

"Friggin' waste of trees." - Ed Miller


[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason that most of these quotes won't appear on future printings of the third edition is because my publisher wouldn't let me.

Regards,
Lee Jones

P.S. It took me a while to get used to it, but I actually like the new cover. It also (I'll be frank) stands out better when clamoring for attention among the other three dozen poker books on the shelf at Barnes & Noble.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]

P.S. It took me a while to get used to it

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you mean, but if it was my book...my first thought would be, "Damn, I hope shes a better poker player than she is a graphic artist."

Either way is content over cover quality that matters anyway. Look forward to it.

PS: Since u are herem a few suggestions for PS...3 things:
1.Add a mini view at some point if possible.
2.Maybe a way to change table graphics (like to solid black if u wanted)
3.You should add SSHE and the Harrington books to the FPP store.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Also definetly start sending out (emailing) tournament (SNG) summaries like PP does, please. That would take 5 minutes for someone to code and it would mean a lot. I must use the opportunity. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] PS is the best site for me and that's why details like that bother me even more. It should REALLY be easy to implement that.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also definetly start sending out (emailing) tournament (SNG) summaries like PP does, please. That would take 5 minutes for someone to code and it would mean a lot. I must use the opportunity. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] PS is the best site for me and that's why details like that bother me even more. It should REALLY be easy to implement that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto that. Lee u have it in you to make some great changes.

Also, love the sites Instant HH now. Awesome stuff.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Lee, in your next edition put in a chapter on playing against Laggy Vietnamese guys and a chapter on playing against chicks.

Thanks,

tek

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]


Big changes in the new edition:

1. Barry Tanenbaum was kind enough to go over the entire strategy section with a fine-toothed comb. I've made a bunch of changes based on his recommendations, and I think those chapters are now better, clearer, and will give you extra expected value.

2. Because of the huge popularity (and profitability) of no-limit hold'em sit and go's, I wrote three chapters about those. My friend and former colleague Terrence Chan consulted on that section and it's, IMHO, ground-breaking work. I'm not aware of anything like it in print and there are some exciting numbers about how much money you can make playing NLH S&Gs.

3. I've cleaned up the prose a lot - removing words like "almost" and "probably". Barry pointed out that those words were useless unless i told you what the exceptions were. So either I told you what the exceptions were or simply took out the equivocal language. The fact is that the exceptional cases account for a tiny fraction of your earnings. So particularly for novices, there's no reason to confuse them with those exceptions.

By the way, in regards to the complaint that the book is "weak-tight", I have two points to make:

1. Because of Barry Tanenbaum's input, the book advocates giving up less after the flop than previous editions.

2. I still recommend folding more than, say, Ed Miller does. That's because almost all hold'em players, and particularly newbies, tend to go too far in hands. They call too much before the flop, and find too many creative excuses to see a turn card. If you're heads-up against a single player, then yes, you have to be fairly persistent postflop. But against multiple opponents (especially more than two), it's expensive to stick around with marginal hands.

But the bottom line is that I think the third edition is by far the best of the three, and I hope you'll go buy a copy.

Regards,
Lee Jones

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. As I recall, the 2nd edition changed the starting hand recommendations.

The 3rd edition sounds like it changes the post flop play sections.

Looks as if Mr. Jones has learned a lot about Holdem since he wrote the first edition.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Haha. A chapter how can I break Gus Hansen and Doyle Brunson would be ok, too. Imagine a chapter in a book called "Chapter III: How to break Gus Hansen." and "Chapter IV: Exploit Phil Ivey's flaws."

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Thanks for keeping us posted, Lee. I'm very much looking forward to owning this edition.

I think the Ferguson quote is pretty funny.

I would order immediately from Conjelco, but I paid Amazon $80 for a year's worth of two-day shipping, so I guess their evil plan to get me to order everything from them is working. As soon as they manage to list this edition, I'll be ordering it.

P.S. Please forward this to them, if it helps.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

Liz

Amazon is already listing the book. There was a link posted earlier in the thread, here it is http://tinyurl.com/adrr7 . For some reason you just cant get it to show up in a search.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
Liz

Amazon is already listing the book. There was a link posted earlier in the thread, here it is http://tinyurl.com/adrr7 . For some reason you just cant get it to show up in a search.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? If you seach under Books for Lee Jones, the third edition is the second book listed.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Liz

Amazon is already listing the book. There was a link posted earlier in the thread, here it is http://tinyurl.com/adrr7 . For some reason you just cant get it to show up in a search.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? If you seach under Books for Lee Jones, the third edition is the second book listed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, as of last night, the book still wasn't showing up in when i searched for it.

If you look in the post by playersare it says the exact same thing.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

We've been fighting a war of attrition with Amazon over listing the book. I don't understand all the details (Chuck is fighting - I'm just rooting for him [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]).

I just checked this morning and searching for "Lee Jones" does bring the third edition up (that, sadly, is a recent improvement).

Whether the 2nd or 3rd edition lists first is still up for grabs depending on how you search. They have a whole team of people who develop and maintain their "search" algorithm (says a friend who works there). It seems to think that because the second edition has sold more than the third edition (er, duh), it should be listed first.

I suggested that a brief calculus refresher (consider "volume" vs. "volume per unit time") might be in order.

But I think things have improved some, and I trust that they will improve further over the coming months.

Regards, Lee

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
They have a whole team of people who develop and maintain their "search" algorithm (says a friend who works there).

[/ QUOTE ]
Amazon search has it's problems, but it's better than the one at my university library. Sometimes I have to search/find the book on Amazon and only then, knowing the exact title or ISBN, can I find it in my library online catalog.

Re: Winning Low-Limit Hold\'em Third Edition by Lee Jones
 

I ordered from walmart.com. Was cheap and got here fast.