Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

I've been playing the new Party 30/60 full time for about 3 weeks now. My winrate over 22,500 hands is a pathetic 0.89 BB/100. I was making 2.61 BB/100 over 100,000+ hands in the old Party 15/30. I'm obviously not happy with my 30/60 results.

I realize that I'm likely running bad, but just what kind of winrate is possible in this game? Is there anyone who has over 50,000 hands in this game already and is willing to share his results? Of course, the bigger the sample size the better.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

BRAGGER!

My winrate is about 1 overall in the new 30. I am on a nice 28k hand breakeven streak though. This game is a hard game, i don't care what anyone says.

A top player's rate would probably be 1.5-2 tops.

I aspire to 1.5

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
BRAGGER!

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I wish there was something to brag about, but there isn't.

[ QUOTE ]

My winrate is about 1 overall in the new 30. I am on a nice 28k hand breakeven streak though. This game is a hard game, i don't care what anyone says.

A top player's rate would probably be 1.5-2 tops.

I aspire to 1.5

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, and there I was hoping that I could double my $/hand by playing the new 30/60.... The worst part is that there's no going back to the 15/30 now that all the LAGs have moved up.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

All BS aside, I've done real well on the PP 30-60 since May 3 (around when all the new tables came in). I'm not sure what my BB/hr is, but I'd bet it's up there pretty good.

I'm like Nate, though, and after playing the Bellagio 80-160 and realizing how much I miss live play, my game on PP 30 has gotten admittedly sloppy.

I'm going to take a few days off and do some fishing.

TSP

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing the new Party 30/60 full time for about 3 weeks now. My winrate over 22,500 hands is a pathetic 0.89 BB/100. I was making 2.61 BB/100 over 100,000+ hands in the old Party 15/30. I'm obviously not happy with my 30/60 results.

I realize that I'm likely running bad, but just what kind of winrate is possible in this game? Is there anyone who has over 50,000 hands in this game already and is willing to share his results? Of course, the bigger the sample size the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rolling...Only 10K hands but +8 BB/100.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

Only about 12,000 hands, but I'm well above 3BB/100. The deck's been hitting me in the face, but I'm also finding plenty of fish.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

Nope.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhh...there were quite a few who did...over large samples, too. I wasn't quite there at the end but know quite a few people who were.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you be skeptical about that? I know of several players who made a similar rate and I myself made over 3BB/100 multi tabling for a few hundred thousand hands.

I had an absolutely horrid start at the 30-60 games myself (probably the worst long term stretch I've ever had, I guess many would say I was due [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) but its starting to come around. I'm about .5BB/100 at the 30-60 games through about 35k hands. I personally miss the old 15-30 games. Like Nightwish said, there's just not going to be any turning back as the 30-60 game will have to be the base now of most multi tabling pros and semi-pros. Sigh. Maybe Nighwish and I can start a petition to rid Party of the new 30 games [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-ActionBob

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you be skeptical about that? I know of several players who made a similar rate and I myself made over 3BB/100 multi tabling for a few hundred thousand hands.

I had an absolutely horrid start at the 30-60 games myself (probably the worst long term stretch I've ever had, I guess many would say I was due [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) but its starting to come around. I'm about .5BB/100 at the 30-60 games through about 35k hands. I personally miss the old 15-30 games. Like Nightwish said, there's just not going to be any turning back as the 30-60 game will have to be the base now of most multi tabling pros and semi-pros. Sigh. Maybe Nighwish and I can start a petition to rid Party of the new 30 games [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-ActionBob

[/ QUOTE ]

and the 20 games too please.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

I have about 25K hands in the new party 30 game. After starting out on a marvelous run, the last 10K hands or so I've been getting kicked in the teeth. Add in a tilt session or two and my once proud win rate in that game is now reduced to less than 1BB/100.

I agree that the game is not as easy as the 15 either. There are some donkeys, but also a lot of tough and very aggressive players which makes for a high variance game.

Does no one else think...
 

that the 30 has gotten significantly easier in the last couple weeks? I am finding many more fish there now than I was in the first month it was open. Also I am finding players making much bigger mistakes (obviously going hand in hand with the fish). I have even found player calling the river jsut to see what I have. This was not the case several weeks ago where I was lucky to have 1 super fish at teh table.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

Is anyone else surprised the 30/60 remains as popular as it is now that the extra tables have been there for 6 weeks or so? I thought it would get a lot of action for a couple of weeks, and settle back down. But 15/30 looks dead to me now. Where do the 'losers' in this game get the money?

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? I'm playing 4 tables at a time, which is the exact same number I was doing in the 15/30. Maybe 0.89 BB/100 really is a great rate for this game, but I don't believe this to be the case at this point.

[ QUOTE ]

If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's really true, and there are people who did better than that. I can post a screenshot if you really insist.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

I'm doing OK in the game, up a little over 1BB/100, although I don't have a ton of hands. I started off on fire the 1st week or so, then mangaged to drop 150BB in 2 days. Since then things have been much more rational.

Table selection is important as many times I'll keep opening tables only to find at least 2 or perhaps 3 of the decent regular folks on each table, leaving very few real good games to join. On top of that many of my new "buddies" quickly went broke and either dissapeared or went way down in limits.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

Did a lot of the higher stakes players "drop down" to the 30/60 when it opened up? There used to be a good number of okay 50/100, 80/160 and 100/200 games online, but now I can't find any in ET evenings, and I'm down 3.5 tabling it at 30/60. Well, I wanted to do that anyhow, since I had just experienced a ~500BB digger and needed to regroup.

cheers,
highland

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

I was wondering the same thing, I use to be 1.29bb/100 according to PT at the old 3 table set up, which I use to 3 table when I got bored of sngs/multis. I mean I got a couple pm's somedays from people like stox/jjprod that Im very good, and other days where 2+2ers PM me about a donkey hand.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

Let's shead a tear. So you dropped from $79 to $53 per 100
hands. Looks like you're doing well to me.

Just play more of the softer 15-30 games. You're not running bad--the 30-60 is most likely a lot tougher.
Probably you should pick your spots when you play the bigger limit.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Nighwish and I can start a petition to rid Party of the new 30 games

[/ QUOTE ]

I will join you. Ever since they opened up the 30 games, the 15 games have sucked. No one seems to be making any mistakes anymore. On the other hand, I have only played 3 sessions for about 9 hours this month so it just might be that I continually found myself in tough tables.

I was about to join the 30 games as of tonight but this thread doesn't exactly have me rubbing my hands in gleeful anticipation.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

It seems like all the donks and bad players are pretty evenly spread between the 15, 20, and 30 games. The tough players are definitely localized in the 30 game, though.

DN

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

maybe im a derb (though i am not THE derb), but I have been 4 tabling party 30/60 and have been crushing it. My BB/100 is 2.05 over 35,068 hands, and it really should be a little higher because I had a streak where I was playing really bad a little while ago, but am now back on track. Though i guess this can be expected every now and then.

I was a regular at the old 30/60, and I would have to say that since they added the new tables the games have been A LOT softer.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

0.4BB/100 currently over 50K of new 30/60 games 4-tabling in average (3 to 6 tables). Had 2.4/100 in older 15/30 6-tabling for 200K. I suspect there are too little fishes and too much decent players to share fishes money.

To my opinion current 15/30 become tighter though still quite more passive comparing to 30/60, 30/60 didn't changed after adding more tables. Im seriously thinking if playing precisely SH 15/30-30/60 or 10/20 6max could be more profitable at least for me.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

BK,

I think back in April you talked about still being unsure if you would keep the 15/30 as your regular game, although I imagine you are so immensely overrolled for 15/30 it's comical.

I am kind of surprised that I am seeing some of the long time 15/30 pros in the 15/30 still. OscarPGM comes to mind.

At any rate, this thread is depressing. I'd like to make the 30 my full time game, as I have only logged under 10k hands so far at the 20 and 30 combined, but it seems like the 15 might be almost as profitable without the brutal swings.

What are your thoughts on this these days?

Nigel

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
0.4BB/100 currently over 50K of new 30/60 games 4-tabling in average (3 to 6 tables). Had 2.4/100 in older 15/30 6-tabling for 200K. I suspect there are too little fishes and too much decent players to share fishes money.


[/ QUOTE ]
This post is bad news. I've seen you play many times, and though our styles are very different, I think you're a very good player. If it's true that a very good player (and I'm not necessarily saying that I am one, though I've had good results in the past) can only make 0.5 BB/100 in this game, my conclusion is that I'd be better off getting a real job with its accompanying paycheck stability, benefits, etc. And it wouldn't be even close.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
0.4BB/100 currently over 50K of new 30/60 games 4-tabling in average (3 to 6 tables). Had 2.4/100 in older 15/30 6-tabling for 200K. I suspect there are too little fishes and too much decent players to share fishes money.

To my opinion current 15/30 become tighter though still quite more passive comparing to 30/60, 30/60 didn't changed after adding more tables. Im seriously thinking if playing precisely SH 15/30-30/60 or 10/20 6max could be more profitable at least for me.

[/ QUOTE ]


what are your blind defense stats like now, out of curiousity?

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

I'm at 1.03 BB/100 since the 30 tables were opened up, about 35K hands. Ironically I was running somewhat better than this when the number of tables were restricted so my overall rate in the 30/60 is somewhat better, approaching the 1.5 benchmark.

This thread is a little disconcerting. That said, even 1.0 BB/100 works out to about $200/hour 4-tabling, so there might not be too much to complain about.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did a lot of the higher stakes players "drop down" to the 30/60 when it opened up? There used to be a good number of okay 50/100, 80/160 and 100/200 games online, but now I can't find any in ET evenings, and I'm down 3.5 tabling it at 30/60. Well, I wanted to do that anyhow, since I had just experienced a ~500BB digger and needed to regroup.

cheers,
highland

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I think that's part of it. If Schneids and bicyclekick and fifteen other pros comes over from other sites and start 4+ tabling the 30/60, that's going to have an impact on the game. The player pool is not all *that* large.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

I get about 250 hands per hour 4 tabling, so about $150/hr 4 tabling at 1BB/100. I'm sure I am not nearly the player you or Peter are and if you guys are struggling to get 1BB in this game, it makes me wonder if this is one of those games/levels that's just better off skipped, like the old 10/20 full.

Aren't solid NL players making about this much 4 tabling at even the $600 tables? I don't know much about NL win rates so I may be way off here, someone correct me if I am wrong. Is NL a better road to more $/hr at lower risk/variance?

Also, is 4 tables reasonably the max for the 30, or can 6 be played without too much decline in WR? Anyone here doing 6 or more? I'm assuming you can't auto-pilot too much in this game if it's this tough.

Nigel

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I get about 250 hands per hour 4 tabling, so about $150/hr 4 tabling at 1BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

250/hour is probably more reasonable, unless you're playing a lot of shorthanded. The "old" 30/60 used to run particularly fast since you didn't have players posting and coming and going all the time, but the new game can be slow at times. Plus you're going to lose some time to opening and closing and selecting tables, which is a must since table selection is essential in this game. I might be four-tabling, but it's probably closer to say 3.6 tables that I'm actively playing at any given moment.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I am not nearly the player you or Peter are and if you guys are struggling to get 1BB in this game, it makes me wonder if this is one of those games/levels that's just better off skipped, like the old 10/20 full.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration. Most of the "top" posters here I'd guess are ultimately going to wind up somewhere in the neighborhood of $175-$200 if they're four-tabling and that's good money.

The other problem is that it's not clear just what one might jump to. At any given moment, there might be something like 10-15 hold 'em tables higher than say 40-80 running in the entire US (excluding extremely high limits), say 1-2 at Bellagio and 4-5 at Commerce and 2 at Stars and maybe 1-2 at UB and say 3-4 at Interpoker or what have you. That just isn't a lot of game selection.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, is 4 tables reasonably the max for the 30, or can 6 be played without too much decline in WR? Anyone here doing 6 or more? I'm assuming you can't auto-pilot too much in this game if it's this tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played four tables for a long time and get put to enough tough decisions in the 30/60 that I don't feel in a hurry to add more, especially as one or two of those tables is usually running pretty short. The interesting question IMO is whether the 15/30 might actually be more profitable, between the higher BB/100 win rates and possibly the ability to play more tables without giving up as much. Some of this may eventually be arbitraged out as well; if some of the winning regulars are struggling at 30/60 they may jump down, pushing some profit back into the 30 game.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The other problem is that it's not clear just what one might jump to. At any given moment, there might be something like 10-15 hold 'em tables higher than say 40-80 running in the entire US (excluding extremely high limits), say 1-2 at Bellagio and 4-5 at Commerce and 2 at Stars and maybe 1-2 at UB and say 3-4 at Interpoker or what have you. That just isn't a lot of game selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, having been so Party-centric for so long, I didn't realize the situation was that grim. And you're including live poker too!

I had always assumed there were a fair number of high limit games at the other sites waiting for me if my skill level and bankroll ever got up to par.

The good ol' Party 15/30 at isn't looking so bad these days as a stable income/bankroll building game.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

I know 2 players who are beating the 30/60 for 3 BB/100 over 100K+ hands:

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!

As for myself, I'm a pretty mediocre player and I've made about 1.4 BB over the my last 30k hands.

Just a rant....
 

Well I was running well until today...

KK 5x and lost 4 of them. 2x I was against AA, 1x vs AJ, A on the flop, then the worst of all. It's capped 3 ways. Flop is KJ7, flop is capped, turn is 7, turn is capped, river blank and capped, I lose to 77.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

In a game that appears to be this tough I don't how you could maintain 3+BB/100. With even just one bad run of any appreciable length you'd be hosed, heck even a good break-even stretch would kill you.

Knowing how good some of the players are that seem to be "struggling" and seeing their collective WR's for what is well over 100k hands, I would say that over 3BB/100 for that many hands is either a case of being an insane luckbox or selective reporting/importing.

But hey, I'd like to believe it's achievable! In my best Martin Yan voice... If Derb can do it, so can you!

Nigel

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know 2 players who are beating the 30/60 for 3 BB/100 over 100K+ hands:

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!

As for myself, I'm a pretty mediocre player and I've made about 1.4 BB over the my last 30k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Win rates are such a black box, really. The 1.5/100 number has been tossed around in private conversations between some 2+2ers and may have become something of an indstury standard without any empirical validation. The "true" theoretical winrate for an expert might somewhat higher, though 3/100 seems dubious.

There's also a selective sampling issue going on here. This has obviously turned into the "I'm running mediocre!" thread and the people who have posted results are the people who are in fact running mediocre. Frankly if I had run at 3.0/100 over my last 40K I probably wouldn't post that as it would come off as a brag and I probably also wouldn't post my results if say I had lost money during that stretch as I'd be too embarassed.

Subjectively speaking, I feel like I *have* run bad while posting that 1/100 number (and objectively speaking, I know that I played bad/tilty during maybe 20% of those hands) so I expect better things for myself going forward, but I don't know how reliable that sort of judgement is. Frankly I really have no idea what my "true" winrate is, in part because I'm bouncing around between different games and in part because my game itself is changing and mostly because, as I've been aptly reminded over the past six weeks or so, the long-run in poker is very, very, very long.

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

Well, there must be some losers in this game.

Not anyone on this forum?

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

do you realize how pointless worrying about 22k, or 50k, or even 80k hands is, especially when you're in the ballpark of what you'd expect?

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

Oh no - I feel a DERB argument coming on.

Regarding the guy who 8 tables and beats it for 3BB/100 - I find that to be an amazing claim. I don't think it would be impossible to beat for 3BB 4 tabling, but you end up HU or 3 way w/ a blind so many times, that player reads are MUCH more important. The players, even the losing ones, are flat out better. I 8 tabled 15/30, not sure I could do it at 30/60. I used to read/surf while 4 tabling 15/30, but can't do it at 30/60 - all other windows are closed for me. I play in shorter burst too, to stay fresh.

[ QUOTE ]

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

18k hands - 5.09bb/100

my game selection is awesome

Re: Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh no - I feel a DERB argument coming on.

Regarding the guy who 8 tables and beats it for 3BB/100 - I find that to be an amazing claim. I don't think it would be impossible to beat for 3BB 4 tabling, but you end up HU or 3 way w/ a blind so many times, that player reads are MUCH more important. The players, even the losing ones, are flat out better. I 8 tabled 15/30, not sure I could do it at 30/60. I used to read/surf while 4 tabling 15/30, but can't do it at 30/60 - all other windows are closed for me. I play in shorter burst too, to stay fresh.

[ QUOTE ]

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how someone could have a winrate of 3bbb when playing 8 tables because there are never eight good games going on at one time. But, I believe a 3bb win rate is possible if 4 tabling, coupled with great game selection and great play.