Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Ok, well, I am in a bit of a rout here. Started with $80 and was going to grind for a bit to start hitting up the 11s and 22s and play poker for the summer, hoping to make some money. I am also a pretty tight player and dont take too many risks. But it seems like I am about to go broke, and that is bad.

I have $12 left on my account and $12 in rake back to get, but for some reason I can't place in the money and it has killed whatever small amount of bankroll I had. Of the 58 tables I have hit up I have moneied in 16 of them. It seems no matter what I do, ppl will draw out on me, no matter how I push or bet. My AA got cracked today by 28s, and no matter how many times I want them to call, it just seems I am on the short end...

Is there anything I can do, I have 4 tables worth at the 6s then I am done, I really need the help and any advice would be good.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

If you want to treat this game seriously, you gotta either play with more money, or move down in limits.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

I don't know what advice you can get that will make your hands hold up for the next four SnGs.

Hope you win your coinflips.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

List of concepts you need to understand to beat the $11's for a moderate ROI:
L1-L3:
Playing pairs for Set Value
Playing TPTK + Overpairs for profit
Check-raising
Slowplaying (when to do it)
Positional concerns preflop (insanely important)
Never laydown QQ
L4-ITM:
Blind Stealing:
Position
# of active players left
How good your hand actually is (88 = AK or K9s)
10x BB rule: when you have 10x BB or less, push all-in
ICM
Stack Size
Raising vs Calling
Luckboxing (sucking out on others)
Range of opponent's hands (very, very important)
Opponent's stack sizes (unimportant compared to the others because of opponent's play) (understand the last sentence, and you'll beat the bubble)
Stabbing the flop vs Pushing preflop
Limping
ITM-HU:
Aggressiveness
Playing opponents (always important, but essential here)
Position (this is really, really important HU)

General SNG concepts:
Variance

Remember, don't focus on your suckouts. Focus on getting blinded down to nil or doing stupid things with decent stacks that allowed you to lose.

Is being called by a loose big stack with A8s good on the bubble?
Is it ok to limp KJs UTG in L1? Ok in CO in front of limpers in L1?
Do you laydown AA to a board with a three-flush?
Do you open-fold any hand in the SB Heads-Up?

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Looks like you'll be mowing lawns again this summer.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Good Luck bro...

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like you'll be mowing lawns again this summer.

[/ QUOTE ]

And there is absoulutely nothing wrong with that!
Much more healthy for you physically and emotionally
that sitting in front of a computer screen all day!

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Stu,

I know its painful for you....so you probably missed the irony
your post and its title.

With an $80 bankroll your poker life is the $.01/$.02 limit
tables. You are well capitalized to play at those stakes,
and at those tables you can enjoy and learn the game.

With $80, you have no life at the $6 sit and gos. You are
way undercapitalized for that level...that is not where
your poker life is.

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Get a credit card.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, well, I am in a bit of a rout here. Started with $80 and was going to grind for a bit to start hitting up the 11s and 22s and play poker for the summer, hoping to make some money. I am also a pretty tight player and dont take too many risks. But it seems like I am about to go broke, and that is bad.

I have $12 left on my account and $12 in rake back to get, but for some reason I can't place in the money and it has killed whatever small amount of bankroll I had. Of the 58 tables I have hit up I have moneied in 16 of them. It seems no matter what I do, ppl will draw out on me, no matter how I push or bet. My AA got cracked today by 28s, and no matter how many times I want them to call, it just seems I am on the short end...

Is there anything I can do, I have 4 tables worth at the 6s then I am done, I really need the help and any advice would be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sell more stuff and getting a bigger roll. Dropping 7 buy-ins at the 11's is nothing. Especially if you're only placing in the money 27.5% of the time, which is horrible.)

A winning player can drop 7 buy-ins EASILY.

I have about 30 buy-ins at party to play the $11's and I really don't want to start until I have enough for 50 buy-ins to minimize the risk of ruin to near 0.

Your risk of ruin must be higher than 50%.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Yeah 27.5% is worse than the average player (30%), by definition.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

[ QUOTE ]
List of concepts you need to understand to beat the $11's for a moderate ROI:

10x BB rule: when you have 10x BB or less, push all-in
ICM

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the 10BB thing is in any sense a RULE. So with 100/200 blinds, and with 1900 chips, you're going to push all in any time you play a hand? This is certainly not necessary at 11$ games. You also can be quite profitable not even knowing about ICM, and you definitely won't need it to soundly beat the 11 and 22 tournies.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
List of concepts you need to understand to beat the $11's for a moderate ROI:

10x BB rule: when you have 10x BB or less, push all-in
ICM

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the 10BB thing is in any sense a RULE. So with 100/200 blinds, and with 1900 chips, you're going to push all in any time you play a hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

YES!


[ QUOTE ]
This is certainly not necessary at 11$ games.



[/ QUOTE ]

Maybee you can be profitable without pushing, but i think it will be much more profitable if you learn to push.( i don't have that much experience with the 10's, but a lot with the 20's.)


[ QUOTE ]
You also can be quite profitable not even knowing about ICM, and you definitely won't need it to soundly beat the 11 and 22 tournies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but you still need a decent understanding of what hands are worth calling on the buble.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
List of concepts you need to understand to beat the $11's for a moderate ROI:

10x BB rule: when you have 10x BB or less, push all-in
ICM

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the 10BB thing is in any sense a RULE. So with 100/200 blinds, and with 1900 chips, you're going to push all in any time you play a hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

YES!


[ QUOTE ]
This is certainly not necessary at 11$ games.



[/ QUOTE ]

Maybee you can be profitable without pushing, but i think it will be much more profitable if you learn to push.( i don't have that much experience with the 10's, but a lot with the 20's.)


[ QUOTE ]
You also can be quite profitable not even knowing about ICM, and you definitely won't need it to soundly beat the 11 and 22 tournies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but you still need a decent understanding of what hands are worth calling on the buble.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't follow the 10x BB 'rule' and I have a 32% ROI over 650 11$ tournies on party poker. I think it is much more applicable at 50-200 buyin where you run the risk of being reraised with any 2 or outplayed postflop. People will fold their blinds to minraises at the 11s.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am also a pretty tight player and dont take too many risks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something that seriously stood out to me. In the world of SNGs, if you won't take risks, you won't be successful. Period. You can't look at pushing 73o from the SB as "OMG I hope he doesn't call! Ooooh shitty...here goes." You have to look at it as "Bahahaha. Ship it SON! Oh [censored] he called." [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I think it's great that you're willing to learn, but keep in mind that serious SNG players are at least some bit mad...

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Here are my thoughts on the situation...

1. You're probably going to go broke. Go ahead and get yourself ready for that. It's OK. Most of the players on here have at some point. I have several times. My first few buy-ins at PP went quickly and then I learned how to play SNGs. You're here, so you've probably saved yourself some money down the road. However, you're going to be hardpressed to rebound with 4 buy-ins.

2. With limited funds, you might want to try a site with 5 + .50 SNGs and 1500 starting stacks. After I dropped my first few buy-ins at Party, I switched to Pokerroom.com and killed the games there. I think that would be a good move for you for 2 reasons. One is reduced rake. 20% is very high and it WILL add up over time. Another is you have enough chips to actually play some poker with. You can learn the ins and outs of most of what was on that list (which was very good, by the way)... position, blind stealing, etc. and you can do so without having 1 mistake cost you your entire stack and thus, $6. This in mind, I think it's good to switch back to Party at some point, because your hourly rate will go up. But it's a much more difficult structure for the beginner to adjust to and play, IMO.

3. Read this forum like there's no tomorrow. Also picking up a few books (if you don't have the $ ask for them on your b-day or Christmas) can't be a bad idea. You won't find any specifically for SNGs (this forum is the best for that), but they will definitely help your game. HOH 1 and 2 should top your list. I'd leave Play Poker Like the Pros and both Super Systems, unless you are serious about improving your play at games other than hold 'em (for which they are good).

4. Post some hand histories from your first few tournaments. Not whole ones since hardly anyone will respond to those, but try to pick out some hands that you lost all your chips on and aren't sure if you made the correct play. DO NOT post bad beats, like if you got in with AA vs. 33 pre-flop. But if you feel that you got outplayed on a hand or aren't sure if you should have pushed, post it on here and we'll tell you.

5. Lastly don't get discouraged if you lose this last $24. In my last 100 SNGs I've had a run of 1 cash in 14 games and a run of 22 cashes in 30 games. These things can be streaky. It's entirely possible that you're a winning player on a downswing. However, it's also possible that you're a losing player who needs to plug some leaks. If that's the case, then you're at least on the right track.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

invest in a book and education. quit being a moron

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Somehow I knew I could count on you to provide a useless, dumbass response. You're like the Dead of STT.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

How much should I put in then to avoid going broke again?

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

[ QUOTE ]
How much should I put in then to avoid going broke again?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are a winning player (which is a lot more likely than anyone - especially a losing player - is willing to admit)...then 100xbuyin should allow you to avoid going broke pretty much ever.

The thing is, if you are a good to very good player at the $11s then you'll need much less...but, we have no way of telling you how good you are. And knowing how good you are is necessary to answer your question.

If you play $11s on an $80 bankroll..I think statistically even the very best player ever would go broke a decent amount of the time. If you play the $6s and are still underfunded at $80, you probably should check out a $5.50 buyin, which Party Poker & Skins doesn't offer.

Luminous

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

After my first couple of tries at PP, I put $110 into Pokerroom.com and never looked back. I played the 5+.50s, 1 table at a time. I'd recommend either Pokerroom.com or a site with a similar SNG structure.

More importantly, I'd recommend taking some time to read this forum before you make another deposit anywhere.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

This may have nothing to do with you, but since you're echoing so clearly what I've said in certain situations, here's something I've noticed about my own play and a problem with it. I've found that one of my ongoing problems to keep working on is that I get myself in situations where it matters too much if AA is cracked.

That sounds like a glib statement working toward an even more uselessly glib point, but what I'm trying to get at is that sometimes I've been in precisely the same situation as you, not only losing but getting knocked out with the better hand time and again. No imagination, the real thing, and very frustrating. The thing is, in a way I put myself in the situation for that to happen because in SNG's you are not going to get enough good cards to play only good cards; if you wait for good cards, your stack is going to be so small and the battle is going to be waged at blinds that are so high that you'll be in one confrontation per tournament, and it will be an all-or-nothing that you must win, or you're out. You'll have no wiggle room. Alternatively, if your stack is small enough because you've been waiting so long to make your stand, even winning will only get you a pittance.

That will be because you haven't acquired any extra chips to give you the wiggle room to threaten others with your stack, thereby avoiding a confrontation, or to be able to lose a hand or two without being crippled or gone.

If you sometimes apply aggression not based on your cards but based on position and stack sizes and blind sizes, you may be operating with almost as much on your side as if you were actually holding good cards. There will almost certainly be a time during each tourney where you will be forced to be aggressive without the cards to back it up. If you choose carefully AND have a fair share of luck, then when the occasional cruel twist of fate comes around and your AA gets busted, you might have the chips to survive it, or get such an intimidating stack that people won't dare mess with you, either by stealing your blinds or by defending when you steal theirs.

I don't know if this applies to you or not. I know when I start losing, I clam up and it applies to me less and less. When that happens and I miss all my opportunities to bet with nothing, I'm forced to bet with something and hope it works every single time. And winning every single time is a lot ot ask even from aces.

So, I have to be sure I'm not just trying to get myself in the situation to win a hand; I have to set myself up to win a game. And that means, somewhere along the line, I'm going to have to win without a hand.

Is that anything like what is happening to you? Less and less confidence making you tighten up more and more until it's an all or nothing ride on AK or 77? If so, it might partly be coming from the same cause. You won't be a long term winner in NL Hold'em SNG's if you only play good cards. Any fool can do that, and mostly just as well as anyone else. To be better than those guys who only play good cards, you have to learn to play bad ones.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

What are the really good posts on here to read that will get me caught up?

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

In response to stu's first question of surviving with $24...

two words...your f**ked.

however, i think you've been giving alot of good advise and, if you do your homework, you should be able to see some improvements [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

Yeah, the link that checkers posted is the SNG gold mine.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

I used to be in your shoes.

Then I really learned how to play well and bankrolled myself correct.

In the last two days I have been able to lose 1400 dollars and have it not even be 1/3 of my bankroll.

You'll get there eventually.

Re: Save my poker life and hurry!
 

That's my favorite part of sng's. Pushing with 82, bad beating AK, then laughing when they call you a lucksack. Then getting it in there again the next hand with 93. SHIP IT