Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology - anyone read it?
 

anyone read this book?
care to offer a review?

Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology
by James A. McKenna


cheers,
the Real Macoy

ps.
I have ordered
Poker, Sex, and Dying: Inside the Mind of a Gambler
by Juel E. Anderson

will post a review once received and read

Re: Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology - anyone read it?
 

just bought it today so if noone else steps forward i will return when said text is conquered

Re: Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology - anyone read it?
 

sweet!
definately post your review.

i have found a few other threads with people asking for reviews of this book; however, the only responses were that people had ordered it/bought it....none had read it yet.

cheers,
the Real Macoy

Re: Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology - anyone read it?
 

I purchased the book last week and am about 1/3 into it.

The first five chapters are pretty useless in my opinion. It reads almost like a combination of self help with poker...for example, there are discussions of differences between winning players and losing players such as losing players blame the run of cards for their outcomes whereas winning players always try to make correct plays.

I found the chapters quite dry and seem to have read more like a university paper than a poker book.

I am just getting into the 'tells' section starting in Chpt. 6 (not exactly sure if this is the correct chapter b/c I do not have the book with me). I haven't quite finished it yet but from what I have seen, I do not like the organization of the book. Book seems to ramble off a bunch of different possible tells with out any sense of order.

I am hoping the book will get better as I am only part way through...

Re: Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology - anyone read it?
 

avatar,

i hope for a full report once you are finished.
thanks for the quick preview.

cheers,
the Real Macoy

Re: Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology - anyone read it?
 

I saw the book in B&N the other day and was interested so I picked it up and skimmed a bit. The parts I saw greatly resembled Caro's Book of Tells. Without giving it much thought I put it back down, writing it off as just another copycat book.

For anyone who has read more than I have... meaning more than some of the captions on three pictures... does it resemble Caro's book on the tells sections?

Would not recommend this book
 

This book reads like a Dr. Phil book: "you need to give yourself permission to be a winner." WTF? I read about 2/3 of it and got pissed off and returned it, and got a Sesame Street Elmo book and a Thomas the Train book for my son and they were probably more helpful for my game: "a good train needs to adapt to change." Seriously though...don't waste your money. Buy Schoonmaker's book instead.
Rock 27 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Would not recommend this book
 

I picked this book up yesterday in my frustration at not their having HOH 2 at Borders -- 15 bucks, I figured, so it doesn't have to have much to make me feel it's worth it.

First sign of trouble: introduction says no book has ever been written by a psychologist about the psychological aspects of poker. Whaa? So what are Feeney and Schoonmaker, chopped liver? And then at the end of the intro, there's a footnote: "This book and research were completed before the publication of [Dr. Al's book]"!!

Now both 2+2 psychology books were published in 2000, which means that McKenna completed his book over FIVE YEARS AGO! Now, I'm not saying that an older poker book doesn't have value, but his idea that he's doing something completely new and unique is seriously wrong. (And he doesn't mention Feeney at all!) And some of his stuff is supposedly based on research -- five year old (or more) social science research is pretty shaky, even if you're talking about something that has not changed as much as the poker world in the last 5 years.

Also problematic is the implication that he's been shopping this book around for 5 years without being able to get a publisher. A year ago it seems that some publishers were desperate to publish any piece of shite about poker, and this book still is not published until June 2005?

I have a pretty high tolerance for not-excellent poker books -- it doesn't have to be the most perfect thing ever for me to think it's ok, or at least worth the whatever dollars I paid for it. Yes, I'm critical, but I try not slam a book for not being something it's not trying to be. And I've only just begun the book. But I can't think of one positive thing to say about it.

Seriously. For example, the author uses strange, almost-right terms like "call station." Or defines terms strangely: "runner-runner is an expression used for a player with a weak hand chasing hands with poor odds"!! (Leading to the priceless: "beaten by a runner-runner who made a gut-shot straight on the river".) And not only does he quote a dictionary definition (a sure sign of a crappy writer), but he quotes from an odd (World Book) old (1979) dictionary!

And as others have pointed out, the beginning is a lot of psychobabble about "scripts" and "permission" and "response-able" players. Totally useless.

I wish I could return my book -- I spilled Coke on it, dang it -- for a Thomas the Tank Engine book even though I don't have kids! So far, this book wins the booby prize for worst poker book ever.

Re: Would not recommend this book
 

[ QUOTE ]

Now both 2+2 psychology books were published in 2000, which means that McKenna completed his book over FIVE YEARS AGO... ...And some of his stuff is supposedly based on research -- five year old (or more) social science research is pretty shaky, even if you're talking about something that has not changed as much as the poker world in the last 5 years.


[/ QUOTE ]


Since the 2+2 books were published in 2000, does that mean they're obsolete too?

Re: Would not recommend this book
 

I was in Border's on my lunch break today and took a look at this book. After about 5 minutes I threw it back on the shelf.
I havent yet read Dr.Al's book, but I plan to. John Feeney's "ITPM" should be required reading for any serious player.

Re: Would not recommend this book
 

[ QUOTE ]

And as others have pointed out, the beginning is a lot of psychobabble about "scripts" and "permission" and "response-able" players. Totally useless.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the key to understanding this book is that the author is trying to apply transpersonal psychology (Think "I'm Ok, You're Ok") to poker. This type of psychology assumes that people tend to tend to engage in ritualized interactions with each other to achive certain "payoffs", typically respect, self esteem or sympathy.

For example somone whining about bad beats might be doing so because he seeks respect for his preflop hand selection skills and sympathy for his bad luck. Essentailly the person is saying "Look at Me!!, I play good hands preflop!, I'm trying to win but this assclown gets in my way with his 83o. My luck is so horrible, please give me sympathy"

Ideally if you know this person's "script" would can help them change it, or exploit it.

For example, I was playing in a 5/10 Omaha/8 game, The victem raised in the cutoff with AA24, and I called in the BB with KQ23s. The flop came AJ8 and I jammed it up (Inside broadway and nut low draws), the turn came a 9 which set up a back door flush (bet raise call) and the river came a ten which made my straight. (Bet-call)

The hero now went on about how stupid I was for jamming the flop when he had top set of aces. I recognized that he was basicly playing out "I'm trying so hard" and "If it wasn;t for you, I'd be a winner" scripts.

So I explained that I was trying to bluff him by betting the turn, and that I went four bets on the flop to "take control of the hand away from him". He was pissed, since my responses played right into what was driving his tilting.

I think he steamed off another $200 or so before leaving after claiming that he'd "Never seen such bad cards in my life" and "I just can't win with players like you in the game"

I personally got some value out of this book, but it's written pretty badly and the author doesn't have a good grasp of poker terms.

Re: Beyond Tells: Power Poker Psychology - anyone read it?
 

I read a few hundred pages of McKenna's book while killing time at a book store. I thought the player "scripts" were interesting and something I hadn't put enough thought into. Unlike the other posters in this thread, I think the book has value just because of the profiling of different players.