Frozen River?
 

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

River: (8.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Can they really check if they have me beat?

Can they really call if they don't?

Re: Frozen River?
 

If there was only a straight or a flush draw out, I'd be more receptive of the check. Since you can't assume the potential draw is only JQ, I think you need to bet this. I don't know 10/20 very well, but in my experience, people love to call.

Re: Frozen River?
 

why did you raise with q-k offsuit preflop? then semibluff on the flop when there was no chance u'd get 3 people to fold? Then the check-folding down is fine i guess...but preflop and on the flop weren't that great

Re: Frozen River?
 

[ QUOTE ]
why did you raise with q-k offsuit preflop? then semibluff on the flop when there was no chance u'd get 3 people to fold? Then the check-folding down is fine i guess...but preflop and on the flop weren't that great

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop and flop are standard. Preflop is because charts and stats show it's winning to raise that preflop. Flop is good because our hand might be best.

Tim: I bet that river. I don't think all 3 had a draw on the flop, and it's rare to have someone try to check-raise the T twice here. I bet expecting to get called by a weaker hand often enough to be profitable.

Getting check-raised sucks though, I'd advice against it.

Re: Frozen River?
 

Hey Tim,

Easy river bet.

Re: Frozen River?
 

I think this is a pretty easy bet. What will they call with? I'm not sure but they always seem to find something. And I think you're good here almost always. I can't imagine MP3 or CO checking a T through on both the turn and river and it makes no sense for UTG+2 to go for a check/raise with a T considering the relative position. JQ also seems unlikely given the river check through. You'll get at least one caller on average here and be good most of the time, IMO.

Re: Frozen River?
 

[ QUOTE ]


Can they really check if they have me beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe.

[ QUOTE ]
Can they really call if they don't?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely!

Bet the river.

Re: Frozen River?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop and flop are standard. Preflop is because charts and stats show it's winning to raise that preflop. Flop is good because our hand might be best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't even sure where to begin with the pre-flop question. I always raise KQo in any non-blind position in an unraised pot.

As for the flop, technically I'm quite likely behind to Ace high (or better), but the bet does other good things. Any folds help me, and I'd like to take a free card on the turn. Of course the downside is getting check-raised and then not getting one. I guess someone can make a case for taking the flop free card instead. This might be the more interesting part of the hand since the river is pretty clear.

Re: Frozen River?
 

pretty common value bet situation for me. no one is going to risk a check raise going through twice on the turn and river. its okay, don't be scared to make money.

Re: Frozen River?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tim: I bet that river. I don't think all 3 had a draw on the flop, and it's rare to have someone try to check-raise the T twice here. I bet expecting to get called by a weaker hand often enough to be profitable.

Getting check-raised sucks though, I'd advice against it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet the river as well. My inclination is to fold to a check-raise. What do others think?

-McGee

Re: Frozen River?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tim: I bet that river. I don't think all 3 had a draw on the flop, and it's rare to have someone try to check-raise the T twice here. I bet expecting to get called by a weaker hand often enough to be profitable.

Getting check-raised sucks though, I'd advice against it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet the river as well. My inclination is to fold to a check-raise. What do others think?

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on who did it, but I think i'm gonna pay off pretty often here HU without a read.

Re: Frozen River?
 

I'm in agreement with the following posts regarding the river bet. Small pocket pairs and possibly ace high often will call after the river check.

Regarding any criticism relating to the bet on the flop, in addition to what you've already stated, you have three outs to the nut straight (the fourth is possible, but of course should be discounted heavily given the number of opponents).

Overcard gutshots are so nice, especially with broadway cards - when you hit, you're almost guaranteed action because of the inscrutibility of the holding and the fact that you'll often be up against two pair.

Re: Frozen River?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can they really check if they have me beat?

Can they really call if they don't?

[/ QUOTE ]

You definitely have a point here, but I think you have to bet the river. If anyone holds a T, they're going to bet the river after whiffing on the C/R attempt on the turn.

Re: Frozen River?
 

Before I get too bad of a rap:

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.

Two of them very loose and still no calls.

Re: Frozen River?
 

I think this is yet another in the excellent string of posts where the PFR should take a free card on the flop.

I think I bet the river. Doubtful they're all on draws, and if a T whiffed a trun c/r and has the stones to go for it when the K falls, well, that isn't likely.