Worst Push of all time!
 

I'm distraught! Tell me I didn't play this wrong? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

CO ($87.8)
Button ($104.45)
SB ($98.7)
BB ($158.6)
Hero ($83.55)
UTG+1 ($131.5)
MP1 ($49.55)
MP2 ($90.7)
MP3 ($92.4)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls $1, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $1, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($3.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $2</font>, BB calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($9.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.

River: ($9.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $80.55 (All-In)</font>, MP1 folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: $95.05

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

Unlikely that someone's calling a smaller raise with the 7 and if they have the 8 or ace they will call your push, so I like it.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

why in the world do you think someone would call with the 8 when the pot is so small on the river?

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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why in the world do you think someone would call with the 8 when the pot is so small on the river?

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Because I can't read the board and thought the 8 made a SF?

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

I think it's fine if you feel that BB or MP1 would call such a large overbet with the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
A raise to 15 or 20, though, would give the ace an opportunity to reraise you, thus making them more likely to call your all-in due to having more money in the pot.
I don't think you'd lose much from raising to 20 instead of pushing, as anybody who would only call such a raise with the ace isn't going to be calling your overbet.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

If you think he'll call with the ace, I like it. (And he probably will.)

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

Just curious what people think about the flop play. Besides a King... what are we calling the bet for that we hope to hit?

Is this a good call? (Aren't we really calling for 3 outs)

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Just curious what people think about the flop play. Besides a King... what are we calling the bet for that we hope to hit?

Is this a good call? (Aren't we really calling for 3 outs)

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MP1's bet doesn't show much strength given that a weak jack or ten will bet when checked to in his position. I think you can count the ace and queen outs as fairly clean.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

: D

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
Unlikely that someone's calling a smaller raise with the 7 and if they have the 8 or ace they will call your push, so I like it.

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Not sure i would call with Ace [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , so its pretty bad play I think. Bet 30 or less look less suspicious.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

you need to bet that turn

how it played ... i'd smooth call the river and pray to Jabu one of the later fishsticks raised it up

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Unlikely that someone's calling a smaller raise with the 7 and if they have the 8 or ace they will call your push, so I like it.

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Not sure i would call with Ace [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , so its pretty bad play I think. Bet 30 or less look less suspicious.

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I could/would never make this fold. People are just stupid. I'm not folding the second nuts.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

I think a smaller raise is better. A weak flush will not call the all-in but might call a smaller raise. The ace will likely re-raise. So you make the same amount from an ace, and more from weaker flushes by raising less.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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MP1's bet doesn't show much strength given that a weak jack or ten will bet when checked to in his position. I think you can count the ace and queen outs as fairly clean.

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I don't know if I agree here. His bet is weak, but that doesn't mean hero's outs are good.

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Flop: ($3.50) J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets $2, BB calls $2, Hero calls $2.

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You have to think what the better and others are likely to be playing. How would an A6 play it? What about a KQ? What about 8-9? Axs [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s? A10? AQ?

What about the other guy who's calling? What's he playing?

Either of the hero's cards can make a straight for someone else. There is a flush draw on the board.

I think there is a good chance that one is drawing to put themselves into a sticky situation.

If they hit, bet and everyone folds... great. But, besides a King, what are you going to do if someone plays back... you'll have nothing but a pair on a very coordinated board.

Is it just me? Am I being weak/tight or are there a lot better spots to call with then this flop?

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

TWP I would say it depends on the player that makes it, sure if some lag, habitual bluffer moves all in, calling with As is obvious, but seriously, the only hands most players would raise that 5$ bet on this river is Qs and As, and since you have the As its not hard to figure what card he has. And having the second nuts on this type of board doesn't really mean much.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

I'd raise to 20. You won't get the 8 to call. Also, you make it possible for the A to lay it down. With a smaller raise, you guarantee yourself a call IMO.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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TWP I would say it depends on the player that makes it

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The funny thing is that just up above I said that I'm calling here with the second nuts. There is no folding the second nuts at SSNL no matter how obvious the fold is. You are simply never against the nuts more than 50% of the time, IMO.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

how many hands can hold the Qs compared to other situations when you have the second nuts. To think you are up against the nuts no more then 50% of the time against a typical straight forward SSNL player that pushes this river is giving money away.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

Make it twenty on the river. That's just enough so that the BB will get a sinking feeling in their gut but will probably call anyway with the ace.

But yeah, pushing there is retarded. Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there. Not sure its the worst push of all time, though.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there.

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Are you F-in' kidding me?! Don't make me go out and get HHs with people pushing bluffs/third nuts/other random crap.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there.

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Are you F-in' kidding me?! Don't make me go out and get HHs with people pushing bluffs/third nuts/other random crap.

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Check the pot size, man.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there.

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Are you F-in' kidding me?! Don't make me go out and get HHs with people pushing bluffs/third nuts/other random crap.

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Check the pot size, man.

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I don't care if the pot is zero.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

please find a couple of HHs with people pushing the third nuts on the river when the board shows 4 of one suit.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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please find a couple of HHs with people pushing the third nuts on the river when the board shows 4 of one suit.

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Damn you, I said don't make me. I'm at work. I know I have them, though. Maybe not that particular hand, of course, but I guarantee you that I have HHs with worse pushes on the river. (Especially if I can include hands where I'm the one pushing!)

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

I once had a guy call my $20 raise on the turn with 4 high, no pair, no draw (not even a gutshot). It put him all in.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Just curious what people think about the flop play. Besides a King... what are we calling the bet for that we hope to hit?

Is this a good call? (Aren't we really calling for 3 outs)

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About half an hour prior to getting this hand I hit a Jack high diamond straight flush which was paid off in full by the unlucky Ace high flush. I [censored] you not. So I guess I was feeling kinda lucky.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

On reflection I really should have just raised it pot size maybe a bit more. If someone had the Ace then they would have at least called if not reraised.

Never mind tho [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
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Unlikely that someone's calling a smaller raise with the 7 and if they have the 8 or ace they will call your push, so I like it.

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Not sure i would call with Ace [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , so its pretty bad play I think. Bet 30 or less look less suspicious.

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I could/would never make this fold. People are just stupid. I'm not folding the second nuts.

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Do you really think hero would push with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? You gotto have a hell of a read if youre willing to call with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Are you an idiot or what? Do you really think hero would push with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? You gotto have a hell of a read if youre willing to call with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here.

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Who the hell are you calling an idiot? Your comments are not welcome on this thread.

I suggest you go look up some porn to amuse yourself with. Your thoughts are unhelpfull and lie in the gutter.

PUNK

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />

Are you an idiot or what? Do you really think hero would push with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? You gotto have a hell of a read if youre willing to call with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here.

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Who the hell are you calling an idiot? Your comments are not welcome on this thread.

I suggest you go look up some porn to amuse yourself with. Your thoughts are unhelpfull and lie in the gutter.

PUNK

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Sorry for bad language. It wasnt directed to you anyway. I edited the post, but there are always some quick readers.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Sorry for bad language. It wasnt directed to you anyway. I edited the post, but there are always some quick readers.

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Apology accepted. Remember through pride lies the path of the dark side. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Worst Push of all time! *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Aytumious

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there.

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Are you F-in' kidding me?!

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I have to agree with you again. This is just terrible.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there.

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Are you F-in' kidding me?!

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I have to agree with you again. This is just terrible.

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What is terrible?

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there.

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Are you F-in' kidding me?!

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I have to agree with you again. This is just terrible.

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What is terrible?

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The guy saying 78 of spades will fold in this hand at this level.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
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Unlikely that someone's calling a smaller raise with the 7 and if they have the 8 or ace they will call your push, so I like it.

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Not sure i would call with Ace [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , so its pretty bad play I think. Bet 30 or less look less suspicious.

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I could/would never make this fold. People are just stupid. I'm not folding the second nuts.

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You have to take a look at the hands youre beating with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. youre beaten by Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 87 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. So that leaves 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], smaller spades and a bluff. Would you push with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here? I wouldnt. That leaves the answer to why you cant call a big bet with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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You have to take a look at the hands youre beating with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. youre beaten by Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 87 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. So that leaves 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], smaller spades and a bluff. Would you push with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here? I wouldnt. That leaves the answer to why you cant call a big bet with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

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Against decent opponents, I 100% agree with you. I'm not disagreeing with your analysis. It is correct. But people at this level are simply crazy. Especially when it comes to pushing into small pots. I'd say about 50% of the time it is the nuts or near nuts and 50% of the time it is crap or near crap. Therefore, I'm not folding something that beast crap 100% of the time and near nuts some of the time. Yes, someone could be pushing the 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here thinking they are overbetting with the nuts. Or thinking they are bluffing. Or not thinking at all.

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

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You have to take a look at the hands youre beating with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. youre beaten by Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 87 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. So that leaves 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], smaller spades and a bluff. Would you push with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here? I wouldnt. That leaves the answer to why you cant call a big bet with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

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Against decent opponents, I 100% agree with you. I'm not disagreeing with your analysis. It is correct. But people at this level are simply crazy. Especially when it comes to pushing into small pots. I'd say about 50% of the time it is the nuts or near nuts and 50% of the time it is crap or near crap. Therefore, I'm not folding something that beast crap 100% of the time and near nuts some of the time. Yes, someone could be pushing the 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here thinking they are overbetting with the nuts. Or thinking they are bluffing. Or not thinking at all.

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So how do you rate my push? Clearly it didn't work but how would you have played it?

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

think you should have simply doubled his bet... the only way he would have called the all-in is with the ace of spades and even then it would have been a tough call for him with 4 to the SF on board... he probably didnt even have a spade and was trying to buy it

Re: Worst Push of all time!
 

Well, what are the options? Basically raise 80 (a-i) and raise, what?, 20? I think that most hands which will call 20 will also call 80. If you get 1 call at 80, it is worth 4 calls at 20. If we say that the only hands that call a raise are 87[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x then you only need them to call 80 25% as often as they would call 20 for the push to be good. I think 87 probably calls 20 100% and 80 at least 50%. I think A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x calls 20 100% and 80 at least 30%. So I like your push. In addition, pushing always gets some random calls from 2% and a set and whatever. So I think the push is at least 'fine' and more likely 'good'. The key thing to note is that although it is true that is very very unlikely that he will call the push, it is also very very unlikely that he will call a smaller raise. And when he will call a smaller raise, he will often call a push, too.