Two Plus Two Older Archives - I Hate You 8 of Spades

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- - I Hate You 8 of Spades (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=273112)

bosoxfan

06-14-2005 11:04 PM

I Hate You 8 of Spades

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls

aK13	06-14-2005 11:07 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

Call down.

Rev. Good Will

06-14-2005 11:08 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

PF is meh

But I think it ended up working for the best; I don't think CO has it. The way this is playing out, I'd think CO has a set, maybe AQ 2 pair.

EDIT - this all translates to: "yes, call down"

Sinnister

06-14-2005 11:09 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

Hero folds. MOst micro limit players are just too pasive to just have 2 pair with bb overcalling. I know I say fold, but my crappy play id prolly clal it down

aK13	06-14-2005 11:11 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Kumubou

06-14-2005 11:11 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

Reraise please. If he plays a flush draw like that you can kick him in the nuts. Given the pre-flop action, he probably has top pair or two pair that looks to be in grave danger due to the coordinated nature of the board. Maybe he has A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and that's just life.

-K

bosoxfan

06-14-2005 11:13 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
PF is meh

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a fan of the raise?

the_rookie

06-14-2005 11:19 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF is meh

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a fan of the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Rev. Good Will

06-14-2005 11:20 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF is meh

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a fan of the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

to quote miles "PF is gay", but I don't think KTs is that strong to raise here... I think its no big deal either way its played, the way this hand went, it was definitely for the better.

EDIT - if unopened, or if you know the limper is loose, I think the PF would be sexy

Duerig

06-15-2005 12:03 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

I would just call this down.

aK13	06-15-2005 12:05 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

Actually I like the raise. His play smells like a set.

Duerig

06-15-2005 12:10 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I like the raise. His play smells like a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing until I noticed the stop and go. Clearly he isn't scared of your flop 3 bet on this very coordinated board. I think a flush is a strong possibility.

aK13	06-15-2005 12:12 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

2+2 wannabe

06-15-2005 12:17 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually I like the raise. His play smells like a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing until I noticed the stop and go. Clearly he isn't scared of your flop 3 bet on this very coordinated board. I think a flush is a strong possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would play this way with AA, QQ, or JJ. I also think he would be capping the flop with AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed - i think you should raise

Duerig

06-15-2005 12:17 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]

I would play this way with AA, QQ, or JJ. I also think he would be capping the flop with AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not cap the flop with the sets?

AlphaN3rd

06-15-2005 12:46 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

moot	06-15-2005 01:04 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
Hero folds. MOst micro limit players are just too pasive to just have 2 pair with bb overcalling. I know I say fold, but my crappy play id prolly clal it down

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding here is horrible. HORRIBLE. The pot is big, and there's still a good chance that we have the best hand.

Given the CO's aggression it smells like a set or two pair. The stop and go is a little odd, but it's all the rage these days, so go figure. The only hand we're losing to right now is a flush. He could have one, but it's much more likely that he doesn't.

The BB could have anything and I'm not gonna get scared just because this donk wants to cold call the entire hand. That's what donks do. Hell, he probably has something like a bare king and is drawing to a split at best.

Folding here would be a huge error.

aK13	06-15-2005 01:11 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I would play this way with AA, QQ, or JJ. I also think he would be capping the flop with AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not cap the flop with the sets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I'm a greedy bitch, and I find that if I cap the flop, I usually kill my action on the turn and river. I like waiting for the double sized bet.

SteveL91

06-15-2005 02:07 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually I like the raise. His play smells like a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing until I noticed the stop and go. Clearly he isn't scared of your flop 3 bet on this very coordinated board. I think a flush is a strong possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really a stop-n-go. This is more the classic line taken when you flop a potential monster (i.e. a set) and you want to extract the max on the big-bet streets.

Personally, I don't assume someone will bet and raise strong draws until I'm shown they will. While it's possible the CO does in fact have something like AKs in [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I think Hero's hand is far too strong to just go into call down mode. I'd re-raise the turn and go into call down mode if capped.

As I said, I think Hero's hand is far too strong to assume that the CO has exactly one hand, and without a read saying otherwise, that's what just calling down from the first raise effectively says: CO has to have AK[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or possibly A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x. Note, however, that had a player other than the CO raised the turn, I'd be a lot more likely to immediately go into call-down mode.

bosoxfan

06-15-2005 08:47 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

Thanks for the input here's how the rest played out.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (16.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kd Td (straight, ace high).
CO has Kc As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.75 BB.

DeathDonkey

06-15-2005 08:51 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

Do they make a pretty pink Boston Red Sox skirt? I'll send you one for Christmas.

-DeathDonkey

bosoxfan

06-15-2005 09:25 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
Do they make a pretty pink Boston Red Sox skirt? I'll send you one for Christmas.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think the turn raise and the cold call are reason enough to slow down?

Dave G.

06-15-2005 09:35 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

With BB coming along for the ride, I like reraising the turn. If BB has a strong spade, he's practically forced to call all your bets and raises, so it's free money from him.

CO was very aggressive with his hand early on, so he likes the strength of his hand before he knows there is a flush possibility on the board. There's a chance he has the flush, but his betting patterns do not indicate this, and you beat everything except a flush.

Borno

06-15-2005 09:40 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

anyone check/raise this flop if co is aggressive ?

you push equity that way, I think??

DeathDonkey

06-15-2005 09:50 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

No, I'm 3 betting the turn and leading the river if he caps and the board doesn't pair. He would have to have exactly A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to be ahead of you here. It looks exactly like a set to me.

-DeathDonkey

davelin

06-15-2005 09:50 AM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

Pre-flop is fine. Check-raise the flop. 3-bet the turn, the only hand you have to worry about is AKs.

SayGN

06-15-2005 10:06 AM

hahahaah

the title of your post has brightened my day. the people in my office wondered why i was laughing.

Rev. Good Will

06-15-2005 12:01 PM

Re: I Hate You 8 of Spades

[ QUOTE ]
anyone check/raise this flop if co is aggressive ?

you push equity that way, I think??

[/ QUOTE ]
I like betting out and hoping to get raised due to the fact it's 2-tone board w/o any diamonds.

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