\"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

I post this as a follow up to the thread "Do you believe the shuffle is random online". There were many replies, some from those who think I'm a crazy loser, and others from those with stories similar to mine.

Today I offer you the best "proof" I am willing/able to share that some players know the flop/turn/river before they are dealt. Just watch the final five tables at the weeknite $150 tourneys and the $200 weekend tourneys at Party. Or if you prefer the $350,000/$500,000 Sunday tourney at PokerStars. If someone had a really effective way to cheat this is where their time would be best spent. When the field is down to about 50 players I swear at least half of them have some way of knowing/controlling what cards will be dealt. Just watch the play closely at this point in the tournament and tell me these guys don't know something the rest of us don't. It won't take long for you to come to the same conclusion.

After you get a chance to watch the final few tables of one of these tourneys come back and post what you saw here. Even better, maybe a few of us could arrange to watch the end of the same tourney and compair opinions on what we saw. On Party we could easily record the hand histories for all hands dealt at the final four tables. Although this may not satisfy those who demand mathimatical proof, I think if enough people see the same thing you have to give serious consideration to the possibility that some people know what cards are going to be dealt.

I hope some people will be willing to participate in an experiment such as this. I ask that only those who have a genuine interest in this subject to reply. I don't really appreciate people disrupting a legitimate thread with posts calling me or others losers because we choose to investigate this matter with an open mind.

Thanks,

Ralphie.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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When the field is down to about 50 players I swear at least half of them have some way of knowing/controlling what cards will be dealt.

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When they get down to 2 tables, how do they decide who will control the deck?

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

Do you mean because the player winning the hand always seems to catch? Maybe he knew what was coming. Maybe party told him they were going to hook him up. Maybe he had a pattern mapper.

Or maybe he is just a good player.

If you really think party, stars ,etc are rigged then don't play. I am not trying to be a dick, but these sites have too much to lose to be rigged.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that even if it was PROVEN that party was rigged, and in fact had been rigged since it was started, that most posters here would still play because they are making money off of the site.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

Try rgp. You'll find more wackos over there.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

no, but thanks for the conspiracy theory.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

It seems like your criteria for someone 'knowing what's coming' is if anyone stays in with the worst of it and draws out. In that case, you ought to be watching the $1/$2 or smaller games. Seems everybody there knows what's coming. Wonder why all those successful cheaters are playing so small?

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

Your "proof" is not proof. Please try again!

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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I don't really appreciate people disrupting a legitimate thread with posts calling me or others losers because we choose to investigate this matter with an open mind.


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when you make a legitimate thread, people will stop disrupting you. Stop speculating and come up with proof instead of "proof" and people might listen.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

Let me be sure I understand this. Late in the tourney when blinds are high some of the players are going all in with relative garbage and catching their cards at other times players are calling allins with relative garbage and catching their cards to knock out other players. That's your theory?

If it is I have one suggestion for you - learn something about tourney poker - that is SOP for any tourney. Even the WSOP is rigged if that's your proof.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

remember when moneymaker called down dutch boyd with 33? he knew.

remember when that fish at the home game busted you when he flopped two pair with 75o? rigged.

remember when you made up a conspiracy theory to rationalize your losses?

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

We weren't supposed to tell you, but here is the control sequence for setting the river card late in the tournament: Alt-F4, Enter, Alt-F4. This shows you the cards the other players have (but not who has which cards -- that wouldn't be fair). Select the river card you want from the remainder.

Since other players will also be using this, you need to enter the control code quickly. When the pot is large, get your left hand poised to press Alt-F4, and your right hand poised to press Enter, and you can type it really rapidly.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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We weren't supposed to tell you, but here is the control sequence for setting the river card late in the tournament: Alt-F4, Enter, Alt-F4. This shows you the cards the other players have (but not who has which cards -- that wouldn't be fair). Select the river card you want from the remainder.

Since other players will also be using this, you need to enter the control code quickly. When the pot is large, get your left hand poised to press Alt-F4, and your right hand poised to press Enter, and you can type it really rapidly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, thats so last week. When there are 50 players left in a tournament, all you have to do is type in "GOD MODE" in all caps in the chat box, then press Shift+Enter. If you do this correctly all cards are dealt face up and the flop, turn, and river are pre-dealt so you know if you're going to win.

This is a pretty big secret, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell everyone about it.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

Ralphie,

When you run through one of those brutal peroids of always getting sucked out you start to see ghosts...

But to answer your question directly regarding tournaments and final tables and the players seeming to know what will fall, did you watch last week's WPT where Danny Nguyen won?

He won 8 or 9 major hands, only one of them was he ahead when he went all in. It was by far the worst suckout session I have ever seen on TV.

In one hand he had to hit running sevens, which he did.

In another he had to hit his gutshot, and he did. But what is even crazier about this hand is the other player is the one who went all in, indicating a made hand, yet Danny still called with the gutshot, and still hit his miracle on the river.

On the final hand he calls his opponent's all in with just 43 off and hits a 3 on the river.

We can go watch whatever tournaments you want, but they will never top this one, and it wasn't fixed. That's just how it is...

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

http://www.othergods.org/phtosmayfr05/duck.jpg

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

I guess it's kinda old news by now, but for those who missed it, the fact has been revealed that many poker players of Asian, especially Vietnamese origin, practice a sophisticated method of mental visualization not unlike the Neuro Linguistic Programming. Basically, they go deep within for answers preflop and postflop they visualize the cards to come. This involves an ancient method of breathing of meditation and the Nguyen clan is known to have been initiated into this tradition long before poker. It has also been rumored that Gus Hansen became an adept during his visit to Vietnam and after winning the Tournament of Champions where he singlehandedly busted out every single opponents, invariably with a lucky river card, Gus Hansen more or less publicly acknowledged that his success is due to breathing and making pictures in his mind.
I strongly suspect that some online players somehow managed to get hold of this powerful mental weapons and those on the lower limits are simply building their bankrolls.

The absence of proof is not the proof of absence.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

<font color="red"> </font> This is sort of on this subject, but something that has been debated among our group of players for a long time. How easy would it be to rig games online, or at minimum skew things to your liking?
I know I'm probably the millionth person to say this on here, but since I'm relatively new to the site, I'll put my two cents in.
All you need is a group at the same table (a group being anywhere from two people and upward that know each other) with either "Nextel type" cellphones or just simply logged in to a IM service. What keeps one person (or more) from telling the other that they folded "xyz" and that they must have the nuts. To me, a ring game could really be rigged.
Furthermore, what keeps someone from having 4 different PC's in there "room" and having 4 different ISP's? That would mask the fact that it is the same person. Call me a skeptic, but I really think these sites are really open to being "not so legit". Again, I apologize for probably repeating a possibly dead idea. [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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<font color="red"> </font> This is sort of on this subject, but something that has been debated among our group of players for a long time. How easy would it be to rig games online, or at minimum skew things to your liking?
I know I'm probably the millionth person to say this on here, but since I'm relatively new to the site, I'll put my two cents in.
All you need is a group at the same table (a group being anywhere from two people and upward that know each other) with either "Nextel type" cellphones or just simply logged in to a IM service. What keeps one person (or more) from telling the other that they folded "xyz" and that they must have the nuts. To me, a ring game could really be rigged.
Furthermore, what keeps someone from having 4 different PC's in there "room" and having 4 different ISP's? That would mask the fact that it is the same person. Call me a skeptic, but I really think these sites are really open to being "not so legit". Again, I apologize for probably repeating a possibly dead idea. [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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A winning player 4-tabling straight-up can earn much more than four people fumblef'ing around trying to run one table. Even the example of one person with a bunch of accounts, PC's, ISP's, etc. would just be too much of a hassle.

How can three or four people sitting at one or two tables sharing hole cards and splitting up the winnings be more profitable than those same three or four people playing a total of 12, 24, 48 tables or whatever on their own? I imagine that a group couldn't play more than one or two tables and still communicate effectively without somebody timing out every other hand.

If money were your only motive and you were given the option of playing 8 tables of 3/6 at 1.5 BB/100 on your own or playing 2 tables of 30/60 along with three partners for a cumulative 2.4 BB/100, which would you choose? They both earn you the same amount of money, but now you need to coordinate the schedules of four people, rotate multiple accounts in and out to avoid being detected, etc. It's not practical.

Think this through once as though you were going to actually do it. Plan it out and think about what you need to do just to get started. Calculate how much money you would expect to make vs. how much you would make if you just play winning poker on your own.

This is why I can't believe how many people over at RGP haven't figured out that Russ G. is just trolling. He's got way too much time on his hands, but it's great stuff, lol. Pictures of elaborate "boiler room" setups, etc.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

[ QUOTE ]


Today I offer you the best "proof" I am willing/able to share that some players know the flop/turn/river before they are dealt. When the field is down to about 50 players I swear at least half of them have some way of knowing/controlling what cards will be dealt. Just watch the play closely at this point in the tournament and tell me these guys don't know something the rest of us don't. It won't take long for you to come to the same conclusion.

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This is your best "proof"??? Your "proof" is that the people who win the pots are the ones who hit their draws? Did it ever occur to you that some of those players are drawing to those hands because they know that they have the proper odds? Did it ever occur to you that a player correctly drawing to multiple outs is more likely to hit his hand and win the pot than some dolt drawing to a 2-outer that isn't likely to win if he hits it?

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On Party we could easily record the hand histories for all hands dealt at the final four tables.

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On Party you can request that those hand histories be sent to you, and you can analyse them for statistical irregularities to "prove" your assertions. What do you think you are going to see in observing these games? Do you think that some cheater will type in chat, "The river will be the 9c, completing my inside straight-flush draw"?

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Just watch the play closely at this point in the tournament and tell me these guys don't know something the rest of us don't.

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They do know something that you don't know: how to play the game, and the underlying mathematical principles of the game. The only possible "proof" your proposed observation could come up with is that the results of these hands are statistically highly improbable. What you propose is a meaninglessly small sample size to do that.

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I don't really appreciate people disrupting a legitimate thread with posts calling me or others losers because we choose to investigate this matter with an open mind.

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To prevent outside interference with your investigation, I highly recommend that you and your associates wear tin-foil beanies. Those guys who "know" the next card can also jam your brain-waves so you can't recognise what they are doing.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/afdbtest.studs.jpg

And remember, shiny side out.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

i got a good theory:

you suck at poker

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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Do you think that some cheater will type in chat, "The river will be the 9c, completing my inside straight-flush draw"?

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I imagine it would be fun to type something like that in the chat once in a while. No more than once per session. Because once in a while the card would actually come and someone at the table would freak out.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess it's kinda old news by now, but for those who missed it, the fact has been revealed that many poker players of Asian, especially Vietnamese origin, practice a sophisticated method of mental visualization not unlike the Neuro Linguistic Programming. Basically, they go deep within for answers preflop and postflop they visualize the cards to come. This involves an ancient method of breathing of meditation and the Nguyen clan is known to have been initiated into this tradition long before poker. It has also been rumored that Gus Hansen became an adept during his visit to Vietnam and after winning the Tournament of Champions where he singlehandedly busted out every single opponents, invariably with a lucky river card, Gus Hansen more or less publicly acknowledged that his success is due to breathing and making pictures in his mind.
I strongly suspect that some online players somehow managed to get hold of this powerful mental weapons and those on the lower limits are simply building their bankrolls.

The absence of proof is not the proof of absence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely believe in this - through my own experiences.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

It's a conspiracy by the government and aliens

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

Priceless [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
I only had to read through half of it to be convinced you are right.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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I don't really appreciate people disrupting a legitimate thread with posts calling me or others losers because we choose to investigate this matter with an open mind.


[/ QUOTE ]

You suck. www.recpoker.com

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

Did anyone see the Heads Up tourney on NBC/CNBC where Phil Helmuth told Antonio Estafandiari he would get Jacks and he got Pocket Jacks the very next hand?

You should all lay off this poster, I think he's on to something!!

Here's something else REALLY creepy. EVERY TIME I'm looking for something, and I mean EVERY TIME, it is ALWAYS in the last place I look!!!! I get chills just thinking about it!

Ok, to be honest, once it was in the next to the last place I looked, but I felt really silly when I got to the last place...

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

i will give anyone an even money bet that in any number of consecutive hands at a table (online or live) with 10 players, half of those hands will involve someone at the table "catching" a hand or a card.

i am not saying online poker is rigged. i am saying the nature and probabilities of poker work out in a way that at a full table, half the hands will look like low probability things happening.

oh, and i'll give anyone an even money bet that the OP is a loon. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did anyone see the Heads Up tourney on NBC/CNBC where Phil Helmuth told Antonio Estafandiari he would get Jacks and he got Pocket Jacks the very next hand?

You should all lay off this poster, I think he's on to something!!

Here's something else REALLY creepy. EVERY TIME I'm looking for something, and I mean EVERY TIME, it is ALWAYS in the last place I look!!!! I get chills just thinking about it!

Ok, to be honest, once it was in the next to the last place I looked, but I felt really silly when I got to the last place...

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I have laughed at almost every response so far - great thread. How about where Daniel Negreanu called out for an 8d and it came. Then he called for a Jd for a straight flush and Bingo. WOW. Ever hear of the Goldilocks syndrome - why were we so lucky that the Earth had just the right conditions to support life? Well, if it didn't we wouldn't be here to discuss it. Therefore, the winner is usually the guy that wins the most suckouts. Anyone that loses one is usually out. If you look at any winner they usually got lucky somewhere along the line.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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There were many replies, some from those who think I'm a crazy loser

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That will be the point im trying to make here
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Just watch the final five tables at the weeknite $150 tourneys and the $200 weekend tourneys at Party. Or if you prefer the $350,000/$500,000 Sunday tourney at PokerStars. If someone had a really effective way to cheat this is where their time would be best spent.When the field is down to about 50 players I swear at least half of them have some way of knowing/controlling what cards will be dealt.

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First of all 25 players can't all control the deck at only 5 tables, it's not possible. Hopefuly I don't need to explain to why that can't happen. Also if 50 players knew what was going to be delt they would all wait untill they can see that they would win before they enter a hand. So eventualy all the players in the tournament would be able to see the outcome of the hand. When it got to this point no one would gain anything. The blinds would be passed around but no real chip movement would take place.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

unlike everyoneelse, there may be i've seen suspicious activity myself. I've never seen it on party, but have on stars and ultimate. I certainly have no proof, but would l would love to go back and review players hand histories or be an internal control person.

Since January,I've seen nothing suspicious.

And Phish and the others that have played with me know I win consistently.

Final comment, the paranoid ramblings of small limit players irritates all of us,

but:

People are staying up late trying to figure out how to hack the system. The rng is not an rng, but a seed and a corresponding algorith. People have cracked Keno and poker rngs.

The sites have to maintain strong internal security and keep updating and changing their rng algorith, but I suspect laxity based on substantial experience. I dealt the biggest games in Vegas and dealt 200 blind and bigger in Calif.in a former life. The people who work the floor at most casinos and pokerrooms are usually abject idiots. I suspect a similar level of stupidity handling security at internet rooms.

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

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I certainly have no proof

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Repeat this 100x or so and then STFU and go away. WTF is wrong with you conspiracy theorists??? It's like your cognitive development ended at age 6.

What the [censored] goes into the decision making process before you post that nonsense with the words "I certainly have no proof" in the middle of it???

Re: \"Proof\" Some Players Know What Cards Will Be Dealt!
 

It's really Don "The Matador" Everest controlling everything (not his real name, of course). Not many people know that Tilt is actually based on a true story; he just plays online to avoid detection.

HoHII
 

Chapter 5 in HoHII: "How to know/control the cards that will be dealt"
It's all in there...