Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

6-max game, Villain is decent, sorta loose maybe a bit passive, and haven't seen him get out of line with marginal stuff postflop.

I have 1500, he has 1400.

I open for 40 with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from the button. Villain calls from BB.

Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He Checks, I bet 70, he calls.

Turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
He thinks for a while then bets $60, I make it $260, he quickly calls.

River is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], He checks, I think for a while and bet 350, he pushes, I run out my timer and muck.

Standard boring stuff? Thoughts on my play, his play?

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

This guy really, really does not put you on clubs here. He could be pushing a 4 high flush for value.

This fold is insanity.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

To throw a bit of a wrinkle in here, He has check-raised exactly once in 300 hands, and has just check-called on the river with a non-nut flush on an unpaired board before.

Against most party players this would be an insta-call.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

folding the second nuts on the river getiing 3:1 is usually a bad play... here it looks especially horrible.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

CALL! Folding here is silly, even seemingly passive players ocassionally make bluffs (or raise without the nuts).

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

What are you putting him on? A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What are you putting him on? A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]SETUP!

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What are you putting him on? A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]

Must be 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]!

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are you putting him on? A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]SETUP!

[/ QUOTE ]

Er, obviously not J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but I mean, I don't get what leads that turn that beats you. I don't know, whatev.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are you putting him on? A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]SETUP!

[/ QUOTE ]

Er, obviously not J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but I mean, I don't get what leads that turn that beats you. I don't know, whatev.

[/ QUOTE ]ppl make these gay blocking bets with draws all the time with draws... so he could def have the nut flush/ str flush draw... still, i would intacall getting a huge price. if he wins, fine. with those stack sizes and the previous action, i think you gotta payoff with K high flush.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

If you play this extreme of weak-tight on a 6-max table you had better switch to full tables or maybe go back to limit. And on the turn you should have raised more or even pushed.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

this fold is ridiculous, like everyone else has said. no reason to think he can only have the nut flush or straight flush here. no reason at all... you have to call getting the price you're getting. hell he might even push w/ a straight, he does not put you on clubs!

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

I like your play very much until the river. I probably bet at least $400 and definitely call the allin.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

I would instantly call.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

i cannot fold this hand on the river.

the villan's play could easily be with pocket jacks rather than AcXc or 8c6c. he called a bet pre flop from the bb, he checked/called when an over card and a flush draw came on the flop, and then started getting frisky when a jack fell on the turn. that doesn't smell of club flush draw to me.

a good player on a club flush draw would have not been getting the proper odds to call your $260 turn bet.

i'd have to get busted on the river and congratulate him if he had the nut/straight flush. if he is going to call turn bets like that on a draw with bad odds, i'd like to keep him around.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I open for 40 with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

And so what other board were you really expecting/wanting to get when you decided to play this hand?? (obviously the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the board, but seriously...)

You flop top pair. Turn 2-pair. River the 2nd nut flush (well 3rd if 68s counts).

Seriously... if you're not gonna like a board like the one you got, you should fold KJs every time preflop. Cause this is roughly as good as it gets.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

its been a while since I played NL, but I would call quickly. Reason: he is on the BB. Its not like a solid player limped multiway to you be afraid of the nuts

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

i wouldn't be able to fold this

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

Is this post a joke?

Exactly zero people fold here. EVER.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

You guys are right in that normally this is an auto call, against the typical 5/10 Party Player. I'd expect to be shown total air, some two pair crap or a baby flush.

But against these very tight-weak-passive prima players, a 100XBB check-raise on the river is extremely likely to be nuts or close to it more often than it's not. The only question on the river was how often is he pushing a lesser flush versus how often he has Ax [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Getting 3 to 1 made this a very close decision mathwise, as he needs to have a better flush here less than 25% here to make this a correct fold.

For the record he showed 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

You called... didn't you.

FYI 300 hands is nowhere near enough to know whether he's going to be doing this with the nuts 60% of the time or not.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You called... didn't you.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow your pretty good.

It's interesting how the donkish overagressiveness of your average Party Players changes the perspective of this hand dramatically.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

tough way to lose, but keep playing with him cuz if he keeps calling turn bets w/o the odds on a draw, you'll own him in the long run.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

if you were concerned with the villain having the nuts, did you consider checking the river with the already substantial pot ???

i don't see what the villain gains by showing you his cards here.... i think its a big mistake for him.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

this fold makes me want to throw up and drop kick my mother in the face

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
this fold makes me want to throw up and drop kick my mother in the face

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, basically calling here will definitly show a profit in the long run.

Re: Prima 5/10 Thoughts on this KJs hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are right in that normally this is an auto call, against the typical 5/10 Party Player. I'd expect to be shown total air, some two pair crap or a baby flush.

But against these very tight-weak-passive prima players, a 100XBB check-raise on the river is extremely likely to be nuts or close to it more often than it's not. The only question on the river was how often is he pushing a lesser flush versus how often he has Ax [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Getting 3 to 1 made this a very close decision mathwise, as he needs to have a better flush here less than 25% here to make this a correct fold.

For the record he showed 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

this fold is correct maybe 1/10 of the time. so basically, you sucked out by folding... or something. CALL YOU CRAZY BASTARD