The attraction of omaha
 

i've been looking for some Omaha Hi ONLY games in vegas and the only ones i've found are the Orleans and some station casinos.... (Only Boulder and Palace??)


- The reason i like playing the Hi ONLY games is because its straight forward like hold-em, but then again your playing against a larger amount of clueless-math-odds-etc players.
I'd like to learn Hi/Lo and PL08, but I'm hesitant..

- Does anyone know of any more games that are consistently spread?

- In addition, I would consider playing Omaha Hi/Lo - but I have some questions about all the Omaha variations....
* Is Omaha Hi/Lo the same as Omaha Hi/Lo Split?
* Where is there a PL08 game? This also seems real advanced from what I read.
* What poker rooms in vegas spread constant games of all these variations?
- I have looked at poker room review sites such as allvegaspoker.com and pokerplayernewspaper... but can't seem to find that much concrete info..

The reason I'm attracted to Omaha is it is clear and simply an extremely profitable game..
with more clueless players
with higher hourly win rates
with less deviation
& with less bankroll required
than that of Hold-em....

* Comments/Suggestions Needed!

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

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* Is Omaha Hi/Lo the same as Omaha Hi/Lo Split?


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Yes. And you didn't ask about "Omaha Hi/Lo 8-or-better" but that's the same too. Caution, though -- when people just say "8-or-better" they usually mean Stud H/L, not Omaha.

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* Where is there a PL08 game?

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Europe. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, it's supposed to be huge over there, but I don't know where you'd find a B&M game in this country. Then again I'm not a Vegas regular.

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The reason I'm attracted to Omaha is it is clear and simply an extremely profitable game..
with more clueless players
with higher hourly win rates
with less deviation
& with less bankroll required
than that of Hold-em....

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I play mostly H/L but that's certainly the case there. Most everyone gets some piece of any given flop, so there are a lot of people who fish along with their top pair or gutshot despite two suited or whatever.

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

Omaha Hi-Lo, Omaha Hi-Lo Split, Omaha Hi-Lo 8 or better, Omaha8, O8, same game. In Vegas when people talk about Omaha, they mean Omaha8, I think. In Europe Omaha usually means Hi only. When the game is Hi-Lo, it says Omaha Hi-Lo or Omaha8.

What you said about deviation is true in Omaha Hi-Lo, but in Omaha Hi-only, deviation is much bigger, and bankroll requirements bigger than in Holdem.

During the WSOP there will be PLO(PotLimitOmahaHiOnly) action in Vegas.

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

they also have omaha high only at sunset station in henderson they play 4-8 there

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

We had a full list for PLO Hi at the MGM two Fridays ago, but I bailed because the 10/20 hold'em was too goot to leave. I don't think this game really ever goes there except on a demand basis.

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

I have played omaha high only at boulder station. it's a helluva game, HUGE pots, MANY seriously IDIOTIC players. Example:

HUGE kill pot, nine players raised preflop. I am the only one who folded (true for most pots). Flop is some bullchit with a paired board. By the end of the hand, the pot has to be at LEAST $260. Winner of the pot? Runner-runner FIVE HIGH FLUSH. Winner has Kd 2c 3c 5c!!!!

So YEAH, omaha high only can be quite a game, with much profit potential.

The only problem is that the variance is going to be ENORMOUS because there is NO NUTS TILL THE RIVER. Basically, you need the nuts, or close to it, come the river, or you are frigged. Also, beware of having the nuts, but having so many redraws against you that your nuts aint worth peanuts.

As for omaha-8, there's a completely different story. If you want to play that game, I suggest the book by mark tenner as the place to start.

As far as O-8 goes, if you like playing with old crabby jerkoffs who like to argue, please, do play this game. I used to call it "argue-o-haw, " for obvious reasons. Another way I used to describe it was "a contest to see which idiot can get dealt A2 most often." Although the game might be quite beatable, it's rarely worth putting up with it to make the money.

Omaha-8 is SLOW, very slow. The constant split pots make it take considerably longer than hold'em, particularly if the dealer is a newbie. High only omaha doesn't really have this problem.

In addition, most O-8 is played with a half or full kill, and the criterion for a kill is simply that there be a scoop of 5 big bets or more. This means about 30-40% (estimation) of hands wind up being kills, as nearly every scoop winds up being a kill (there is often no low). That makes it play larger than it appears at first.

al

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

I have played in most rooms around vegas at one time or another, and I am not aware of any regular pot limit O-8 games. Even if such a game existed, the VAST majority of dealers in vegas, even at the good joints, wouldn't have a clue how to deal pot limit, let alone pot limit O-8.

al

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

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What you said about deviation is true in Omaha Hi-Lo, but in Omaha Hi-only, deviation is much bigger, and bankroll requirements bigger than in Holdem.


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i was brought to believe because your more selective about your hand in Omaha (pre-flop and especially post-flop) and your usually playing for the nuts... that isn't the case...

-can someone elaborate on the comparision of bankroll & deviation between hold-em and omaha?

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

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-can someone elaborate on the comparision of bankroll & deviation between hold-em and omaha?

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I can't give you specific dollar amounts, but I can give you some idea as to why there are different bankroll requirements for Hold Em, Omaha HiLo and Omaha High. All of this refers to limit games and assumes that you are playing with al least average skill.

Omaha HiLo has the lowest bankroll requirement and the lowest variance. The reason for this is the split pots; played smartly, you will pick up your share of low-hand half-pots, which can be considerable in a game with several weak players (i.e., players drawing to second and third best low). The same weak players will usually help you build large pots for when you scoop (win both high and low, the greatest felling in any HiLo game).

Omaha High has a greater variance (swings between winning and losing sessions) than Hold Em because of the way the game is played; since everyone has 4 cards, everyone has the equivalent of 6 Hold Em hands. Imagine entering a Hold Em pot against 12, 18, or 24 opponents and that's what a typical hand of Omaha High is like.

Omaha High is a drawing game - winning with a bet on the flop or turn is not going to happen in a low-limit Omaha High game. One thing that happens in Omaga High that doesn't happen that often in Hold Em is 2-3 players hitting the flop hard. An example is one player with a made straight, a second player with a wrap draw to a bigger straight, and a third person with top set. Most likely none of these players is letting go until the river, betting, raising and reraising all the way. By the river, all 3 players have put a lot of money in, but only one is winning the pot. One or two sessions with several busted flush draws, outdrawn straights, etc. and you have a sizeable dent in your bankroll. The flip side of this is when you win a pot, it will usually not be a small pot. Omaha High can be a very profitable game if your bankroll can take the roller coaster ride.

There is a book by Ken Warren that is a decent introduction to both games and a book by Lou Kreiger on Omaha HiLo that I think is the best for someone starting out. I haven't read Ray Zee's book on HiLo games, but it is considered an excellent book. There are chapters in the new Super System 2 on Omaha HiLo and Stud HiLo that also have excellent material in them.

The best advice for anyone playing low-limit Omaha games is…always draw to the nuts!

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

There was a thread just recently (in here and cross posted to the "Omaha/8") section that listed 5 or 6 casinos bringing Omaha 8.

It is a VERY profitable game. Primarily because people bring the aggressive HE mentality to the O8 game which will frequently get you in trouble.

Al is correct about the speed. Sometimes it can be painfully slow, AND the players can be very crabby, BUT the players can be VERY bad and VERY profitable.

I play O8 online and the previous poster is absolutely right about playing to the nuts.

But when playing at the casino it is a different game, you can play a lot looser and do well.

The best book out there is Ray Zee's book in Hi/Low Split poker.

Good luck,

Dave

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

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they also have omaha high only at sunset station in henderson they play 4-8 there

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so far the only places in vegas i've found a consistent game of Omaha Hi has been sunset and boulder...

sunset was full of old people, and i mean old... kinda scary if you ask me as im used to a more younger crowd and not seeing people raise with aces full sorta baffles me... the same people play like solid rocks and only raise nuts, and will only do it once.

boulder on the other hand is ALSO full of old people (I guess omaha is an old peoples game?) however boulder has a rougher crowd and so is the game.... I say rougher because these guys look like they been down and out for years.... alot more chasers at boulder, etc....

there are four typical type of players at boulder/sunset omaha:

1. asian lady 50+/fat white lady 40+/old grandma type 65+
2. solid rock 70+ OR asian dude 50+
3. compulsive 40+ dude with no idea & dirty fingers
4. 50+ dude who knows how to play (leave the table already)

keep in mind that sometimes #1 is a rock, however she will always deviate back to that chase once she has a big loss, especially to #3

#2 has a bedtime of about 11:00pm, so that'll open up more seats to #3, who seems to dominate the game at boulder. While at sunset #4's and #1's dominate the game, which makes it a drop more challenging

HOWEVER im 100% sure that both of these games are extremely profitable..

just my take on things, I should probably get back to playing hold-em [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

The one time I played Omaha High at Boulder Station, ACJ and I were up against a lineup of ALL #3 clueless gambl00rs deluxe, neither of us could hit a thing though, I definitely recommend the game!

Sample of what I recall:

Showdown of 5 players, ALL 5 hands I wouldn't call PF with YOUR $.

One guy played ALL SPADES: J752 type shiite.

Seeing hands, no one except the BB should play was the norm.

Would you cap PF with 99Q4?

-Bri

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

How big was the PLO game at the MGM? I'm going to be in Vegas this weekend (at the Mirage) and I'm looking for a PLO game that mere mortals like me can afford.

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

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1. asian lady 50+/fat white lady 40+/old grandma type 65+
2. solid rock 70+ OR asian dude 50+
3. compulsive 40+ dude with no idea & dirty fingers
4. 50+ dude who knows how to play (leave the table already)

While at sunset #4's and #1's dominate the game, which makes it a drop more challenging


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I can literally see Sunset Station from my porch and I've put in a lot of hours there. The idea that anyone who knows how to play is the dominant personality at the Omaha table there is bizarre. While there are a couple of regulars who are not clueless, that game is overall a sucker-fest.

SpaceAce

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

This was a couple of years back, but Harrahs in New Orleans used to consistently spread a PL as well as a 15-30 Omaha Hi game...not sure about now though...back then the two main games they had there were Stud and Omaha Hi. Then they had a couple of tables of half-hold'em, half omaha tables where they'd play an orbit of hold'em and an orbit of omaha-hi. That was a 1-4-8-8 spread-limit game with 1-2 blinds. Don't know about now though.

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

As far as omaha high only, expect an incredibly high variance / SD with only a slightly higher win rate than hold'em.

as for omaha high/low, expect mostly a bunch of elderly local rocks who love to argue and are basically little more than nits who love the fact that most hands have half the pot given to whichever idiot can get dealt A2 the most often.

al

Re: The attraction of omaha
 

I play at Harrah's in NOLA fairly often. They is alwayst at least one table of $1-$4-$8-$8 half hold 'em/half Omaha high. They occasionally have a $4-$8 or a $15-$30 Omaha high game. I've seen an "interest" list for the PLO game (with $10/$25 blinds!), but have never seen it dealt.

The dealers there are never that great, but they all know how to deal the Omaha games, and the players in the spread half&half game all seem to know how to play i.e. I haven't seen anyone misread their hand. (They know the rules, anyway. Most will see every flop with any four cards.)