Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

Well, I'm exhausted. Sixty hours of play so far at the WSOP. I'm sorry to say that I'm stuck $2000 in tournaments, and probably done with them until the end of the month. The $2-$5 NL games are wonderful, with many excited, weak players (I watched one such player run $200 into $3000+ at my table at the Bellagio - and that's a $200 max buy game).

I've played as high as $20/$40 and also some $10-$25 blind NL here, and I'm still looking for the great plays/great players. Where are they? Even in the tournaments, I can count the number of really good moves I've seen on one hand, and the great plays, well I'm still waiting.

Perhaps I'm spoiled (and have seen almost everything) in the 500,000 online hands in the past, or maybe I am missing something, but at the limits I'm playing, the play is amazingly straightforward.

I'm happy with my play, happy to be winning, and it's been great catching up with some players and also talking with some people I haven't had a chance to talk to before (really, everybody you could want to see is here from the world of poker), and the idea that we are not that different from each other keeps coming through, so anybody that is trying to move up in limits, keep working on it! I don't see much difference between Party $5-$10 and the $20/$40 here.

I really enjoyed James Woods - this guy probably gets a million dollars for a movie role, but he's playing in a $1060 single table sat. and was so happy to split with another guy at the table for $5k - he just loves poker. That's nice to see.

Again, I don't want to sound egotistical (because I know there are plenty of better players here, or I would have scored in a tourny, but I'm also going to blame some of it on going card-dead) but what do you other players think about the middle limit play at local casinos, and also here (if you happen to be at the WSOP)? I just don't see that much of the "excellent" play that I was expecting.

Y'all take care.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

The best players are playing higher. I saw a 50-100 NL game where everyone had stack sizes around 70k. Those players probably play very well.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

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I've played as high as $20/$40 and also some $10-$25 blind NL here, and I'm still looking for the great plays/great players. Where are they? Even in the tournaments, I can count the number of really good moves I've seen on one hand, and the great plays, well I'm still waiting.

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What is it that you think defines a great poker player? Lots of moves, lots of plays?

At the level you're playing the best players are the ones smart enough not to get off on making moves. Your fascination with FPS is likely to cause you a lot of trouble down the road.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

The "great plays" that seperate pro's from amateurs are mostly hard to make folds, you won't notice them because you never see the cards or the tells that lead to the fold. Besides in hold'em the amateurs are very close to the pros in terms of skill compared to other games. Watch an amateur try take on a sharky omaha 8/b table.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

Good to see you back again Paul.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

I have to agree with the others here. While I didn't make any outrageous moves or plays on people, I consitently made 50bb/hr at the 1/2NL games that I went to. I played at the Rio and the Wynn. I even played a 17 hour session on MOnday and cam eout with the same results. I'm not quite sure what youy were expecting to see, but not all hands are what you see on tv. The only reason they seem so spetacular is that oyou get to see them. Most of the time the play is made, but there is no annoucer making it out to be a wrestling event. Also, I played with james Woods at the $175 buy-in satellites so he even gets lower than that. Hell I had a table with TJ Cloutier, a friend of his from Dallas and 3 AC pros at my table and I should have won. TJ moved all in with Q6 off and I called with AK suited only to have a Q hit on the turn. I would have been the chip leader :-)

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

That's a terrible assumption to make. A player with 70k in front of them could be just as bad as the guy playing every pot in 2-4 LHE.

A bankroll does NOT define your abilities.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

I think he was referring to how DEEP they were playing. As in, how many BBs they had against eachother.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

Thanks for the responses, guys. I guess I was hoping to add to my poker knowledge - and learn a few things this past week. Probably, I am too dense to have learned anything from the better players - other than "you gotta catch cards."

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

I agree with Paul here as well. The good players at this level do not make money by making superhero like plays and amazing ace high calls on the river. They make money by making the right decison time after time and saving bets for when they can press a small edge.
I watched Skalansky, Min Ngyuen, Phillips and others playing 300-600 HOSE at the Rio, after watching for about an hour it was pretty obvious why these players were the best in the world. They play correctly and dont get caught up with making heroic plays. Their reads are dead on and they trust those reads and play accordingly. Iwas far more entertained watching this level of play. The best poker in the world is not WPT final table all in checknraise with a gutshot straight draw, its playing the game correctly in your own style, for a period of time that shows long term profit.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

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That's a terrible assumption to make. A player with 70k in front of them could be just as bad as the guy playing every pot in 2-4 LHE.

A bankroll does NOT define your abilities.

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Doubtful.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

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That's a terrible assumption to make. A player with 70k in front of them could be just as bad as the guy playing every pot in 2-4 LHE.

A bankroll does NOT define your abilities.

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Doubtful.

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Bankroll can be taken as slight evidence of ability for pros, but there are clear exceptions. Stu Ungar, pro, highly regarded player, was often broke due to drug problems.

As Barry Greenstein said, alot of theses big tournament names are not actually as good as the TV announcers claim, and many of them are broke aswell.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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That's a terrible assumption to make. A player with 70k in front of them could be just as bad as the guy playing every pot in 2-4 LHE.

A bankroll does NOT define your abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]
Doubtful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bankroll can be taken as slight evidence of ability for pros, but there are clear exceptions. Stu Ungar, pro, highly regarded player, was often broke due to drug problems.

As Barry Greenstein said, alot of theses big tournament names are not actually as good as the TV announcers claim, and many of them are broke aswell.

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My point is, I'll take the guy with 70k in front of him in a 50-100 NL game any day against a guy who plays 2-4 limit and plays every hand, and live with the results.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

Min ngyuen? You mean Minh or men? If minh unless he got alot better in live games he's a fish. Well at least he was in limit games. He could do a little better in pl as he believes in the bluff. As he can bluff more there and get away with it. I wouldn't think he would do as well as sklansky and phillips in that game.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

Paul gives you good advice here.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

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The good players at this level do not make money by making superhero like plays and amazing ace high calls on the river

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Never played 20/40?

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They make money by making the right decison time after time

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Interesting.

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saving bets for when they can press a small edge.

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Insightful.

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Min Ngyuen

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Men Nguyen

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after watching for about an hour it was pretty obvious why these players were the best in the world.

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So from your vantage point and based on your qualifications you were able to analyze the play on each hand and determine that these were the best players in the world.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

Thank you. Finally someone making sense.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

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Thank you. Finally someone making sense.

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He doesn't agree with your ridiculous contention that a 15/30 player could be the best limit player in the world. I promise you that.

Re: Where are the great plays at the WSOP?
 

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Thanks for the responses, guys. I guess I was hoping to add to my poker knowledge - and learn a few things this past week. Probably, I am too dense to have learned anything from the better players - other than "you gotta catch cards."

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

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Hopefully you learned that straightforward play is good, and that live play is not any tougher than online. I agree with the other poster that what separates the good player is the ability to make good folds. This is an invisible trait.