80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

I had never played a single hand of hold' em four months ago. I read Small Stakes Hold Em cover to cover twice and got a couple of weeks of intensive instruction from a friend of mine who had beaten Party 3/6 for almost 4BB/100 four-tabling for 50K hands or so before moving up to 5/10 (6 max). I am using the exact same preflop strategy he used which was taken directly from the "tight games strategy" in Small Stakes Hold em with some blind stealing adjustments. Unfortunately, despite having what I think is a good understanding of postflop play and unwavering discipline, I am spinning my wheels. Here are my stats for my first 80,000 hands. Any help, criticism, outrage, comments, etc. would be greatly appreciated. My results are about half for 2-tabling and about half for 4-tabling with no difference at all in my BB/100 for each.

Thank you,
Redbeard



Total Hands:________________82,157
Vol Put $ in Pot:___________13.93
Vol Put $ in Pot from SB:___15.67
Folded SB To Steal:_________94.23
Folded BB To Steal:_________83.23
Att. To Steal Blinds:_______27.49
Won $ WSF%:_________________33.01
Amount Won:_________________1,357
BB/100 Hands:_______________0.28
Went to SD%:________________32.47
Won $ at SD%:_______________55.54
PF Raise %:_________________7.53


Saw Flop All Hands:_________17.58
Saw Flop Not a Blind:_______12.79
Folded BB to Steal HU:______83.40


1st Action After PF Raise:
Raise:_______________________8.79
Bet:________________________57.39
Call:________________________6.95
Check:______________________8.58
Check/Raise:_________________0.34
Fold:________________________4.10
No Flop:____________________13.85


Aggression Factor:
Preflop:_____________________0.90
Flop:________________________2.12
Turn:________________________2.05
River:_______________________1.17
Total:_______________________1.36


Folded to a River Bet: 34.41



Position:
_______VP$IP________BB Won per Hand____PFR%_________RFI%
Btn:__16.85____________+.08___________9.49________ _4.80
1:____19.66____________+.07___________11.77_______ _6.70
2:____14.93____________+.07___________8.69________ _4.49
3:____14.72____________+.07___________8.71________ _4.99
4:____13.68____________+.05___________8.83________ _6.13
5:____10.32____________+.03___________4.96________ _4.01
6:____10.15____________+.04___________4.52________ _4.06
7:____11.38____________+.04___________5.34________ _5.34
BB:___10.46____________-.26___________4.49_________0.15
SB:___16.08____________-.10___________6.22_________2.18

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

I wouldn't use 3/6 as a place to 'learn' how to play. Move down to the .5/1 and 1/2 and learn how to crush those games, then move up.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

It appears to me that you are not in enough hands preflop (I play mainly the SSHE tight chart too, and I am at 17.5 VP$IP). You are also folding on the small blind about twice as much as I do. PT autorate rules would have you as a TAP. SSHE strongly discourages passive play postflop.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

I agree that you shouldn't start at 3/6, but at least you're a marginal winner.

Stats only tell a bit of the story - we really have no idea how you play post-flop (which is way more important to your WR than pre-flop assuming you're not a moron pre-flop). Forgot following your friend's PF chart -- understand why you're making the plays you're making pre-flop. Hone your skills at post-flop play at lower levels.

Looking at your stats (with the same caveat that they tell a small part of the story), four things jump out at me: (1) you're getting absolutely raped in the blinds -- you need to defend your blinds, particularly the BB, a lot more often; (2) your VPIP is too low -- but until you're confident that you're playing well post-flop, this is less of a concern; (3) your pre-flop raise is anemic at this level, especially considering that your attempt-to-steal is not ridiculously low -- you should be raising more hands (and raising to isolate, etc.); and (4) your fold-to-river-bet seems low, especially considering your post-flop aggression factors -- I'll bet you are showing down lots of 2nd and 3rd best hands.

Good luck!

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't use 3/6 as a place to 'learn' how to play. Move down to the .5/1 and 1/2 and learn how to crush those games, then move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he can afford to play 3/6 then why not? i think immediatly starting out at 3/6 and being a marginal winner is pretty fantastic. i don't think at this point he has anything to gain from moving down in limits unless he needs a confidence booster.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Vol Put $ in Pot:___________13.93

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm always baffled how people can keep their vpip's under 18.5. this just seems insanely too tight.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't use 3/6 as a place to 'learn' how to play. Move down to the .5/1 and 1/2 and learn how to crush those games, then move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he can afford to play 3/6 then why not? i think immediatly starting out at 3/6 and being a marginal winner is pretty fantastic. i don't think at this point he has anything to gain from moving down in limits unless he needs a confidence booster.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. I just think it's easier to learn how to play post flop well without being surrounded by TAGs.

If he can figure it out at 3/6, then all the power to him.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]

Vol Put $ in Pot:___________13.93
Vol Put $ in Pot from SB:___15.67
Folded SB To Steal:_________94.23
Folded BB To Steal:_________83.23
Att. To Steal Blinds:_______27.49


[/ QUOTE ]

You're squeaky virgin tight. You're losing tons of money in blind folds and lack of blind steals.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

I agree... you need to play more hands! especially in position. In fact, I love playing against people who are as tight as you. I know where you stand most of the time and can raise with marginal cards when the board is low because the chances are you either have a pocket pair or 2 big ones. Don't get me wrong, against the fish being predictable and tight can win you money, but you are way too tight.

-K_squared

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

Your blind play is horrific. Defend your big blind ALOT more, and defend your small blind more as well.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

Could you tell me what you mean by 4BB/100? I know 4BB is 24 in 3/6. Also, what program do you use to track everything?
Thanks!

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

www.pokertracker.com

BB/100 is the number of big bets you earn per 100 hands, tracked for you by pokertarcker

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

One thing to consider about 3/6 (at Party) is that the SB is $1 (1/3 small bet instead of 1/2). That makes me play much tighter in the SB at 3/6 than at 2/4.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

You don't have to losen up, your pf stats are fine. You're slightly tight in the sb but thats not what is causing you to lose money.

Learn how to play better postflop. Judging by your stats, you're not aggressive enough. My preflop stats are pretty similar to your but my pfr is 9.27. I think raising you pfr will make a huge difference and should do you some good w/your tight image. Also be more aggro postflop as well.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]

You don't have to losen up, your pf stats are fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's missing a lot of profitable hands when he's playing less than 14% of his hands. Obviously his postflop play needs work, but he's got some issues to sort out preflop as well.

Rob

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

I used to be the tightest 3/6 player here. I am not any more.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I used to be the tightest 3/6 player here. I am not any more.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.ripnroll.com/images/KY_liquid.jpg

-d

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your blind play is horrific. Defend your big blind ALOT more, and defend your small blind more as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's losing significantly more than the average 2+2er from the BB. That alone could account for ~.75 BB in WR. I agree he should defend more, but some of this could be variance, even over this number of hands. Probably not poor post-flop play, as his loss from the SB is typical.

Edit: I'm probably wrong and his loss from SB is probably also greater than typical for 3/6, with a smaller SB. Even though you could blame variance, it still might be a good idea for him to look at his play from the blinds.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I used to be the tightest 3/6 player here. I am not any more.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're looser than the OP, you were never the tightest 3/6 player here. I'm at 13.3% over 92,000 hands.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You don't have to losen up, your pf stats are fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's missing a lot of profitable hands when he's playing less than 14% of his hands. Obviously his postflop play needs work, but he's got some issues to sort out preflop as well.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his post-flop play is far more important. I say this because I am tighter than he is, and so I know it can be done profitably. I'm not saying that 13.3% (my VPIP) is optimal (I have no idea what "optimal" would be), but adding a few marginal hands isn't going to fix his problem. He needs to learn how to do better with the hands he's already playing first.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

I'm personally at 13.5 VPIP and I'm about 2.25 bb/100 winner @ 3/6. I understand the sentiment in the forum about losening up but I think everyone has their own style and will losen up when they are ready. I think it is FAR more important for him to work on his post flop play and aggressiveness than to add a few more hands to his reptoire.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

I just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to reply to this. I believe I will add some hands from both the small and big blinds, but mainly I will focus on inproving my post flop play. I'll repost in 80,000 more hands and we can revisit this subject. Again thanks to everyone for all the help

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he can afford to play 3/6 then why not? i think immediatly starting out at 3/6 and being a marginal winner is pretty fantastic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Being a break-even player at this level is not so bad and is a good stepping stone to becoming a solid winning player at this and higher levels.

Re: 80,000 hands at Party 3/6 ( PLEASE HELP ME)
 

You seem to be playing too tight pre-flop and not defending enough out of the blinds. You could also probably be a little more aggressive post-flop. Really though, you need to post some hands. But loosen up pre-flop for sure. For example, what percentage of pocket pairs are you playing? That number should be very high!