TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

No reads on anyone.

I don't like to 3 bet TT in the blinds and that's not my question but you can comment on that if you like.

I had planned on check raising the flop if it came out all undercards but I was undecided here. What do you do?

Absolute Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero ???

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Ugh. Leading this flop should be automatic given the relative position of the preflop aggressor.

And yes, I 3-bet this PF.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

I want to get as much money in the pot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Flop:Raise.

Turn: Bets/Check raise depending on cards.

Flush chases are probably going to play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

3bet preflop, and lead the flop.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

I would have 3-bet on flop to elminate players.

Since there are 2 clubs here, I would raise; however, if it were a ragged board, I would smooth call then check raise the turn.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

3-bet this PF. You make UTG and CO face 2 cold and they may fold, adding their dead money to the pot.

Flop - Gotta lead out. You slowplayed preflop so no one is going to expect the monster you have and will likely give you action. Going for the C/R is bad here. It won't protect against the flush draw (they need ~5:1 and you're giving the next to act ~6:1) and you'll blow away the hands that are drawing dead. You should lead, you'll probably get one caller (maybe both) before button raises. You then 3-bet. Build the pot.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have 3-bet on flop to elminate players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean raise, since hero didn't lead the flop. Also, hand protection is the last thing you need to be worrying about here.

[ QUOTE ]
Since there are 2 clubs here, I would raise; however, if it were a ragged board, I would smooth call then check raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This really sucks if the hand is multi-way like here. What's the point of blasting out all the other players by making them face two cold?

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

3-bet TT. Reraise the flop, if the BB caps then there's a good chance you're looking at a pp, maybe Axs. Lead out on the turn to a non-club.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

I did mean raise, and yes I want to eliminate players because wired tens don't win as often unimproved.

Since there is a 2 flush, I want to play aggressively so I don't get outdrawn.

I don't quite understand where your coming from?

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
wired tens don't win as often unimproved

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, these T's are of the improved variety (there's another T on the flop).

Gotta lead out here on the flop and try to build a pot. If the button raises I'd be thinking about a stop-n-go on the turn.

I'd reraise preflop too, but I don't hate a call.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

I meant that's why you should raise PF...

I think we're golden here with the set unless the flush hits; however, I would play the flop aggressively becuase there is a draw.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since there is a 2 flush, I want to play aggressively so I don't get outdrawn.

I don't quite understand where your coming from?

[/ QUOTE ]

Any flush draw is almost always going to have the odds to see the river in a pot that is raised pre-flop.

To OP: leading the flop would have been the best play.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since there is a 2 flush, I want to play aggressively so I don't get outdrawn.

Any flush draw is almost always going to have the odds to see the river in a pot that is raised pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but I'm still going to play this flop more aggressively, otherwise I would go for the checkraise on the turn.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like to 3 bet TT in the blinds and that's not my question but you can comment on that if you like.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh oh! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] It doesn't matter whether or not you like to, DO IT! Do it because it's more fun to win more money; you want this heads up if possible with the button, and at Absolute Poker you just might accomplish that goal by 3-betting.

I don't like the flop check-raise because you're gonna scare off the button and blast everyone else out of the pot. Betting out is fine.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Anyone who's chasing a flush is making us money. Why not give them a chance?

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Given your relative position, C/R just forces the field to call two-cold. With the exception of the flush draw (which you can't fold anyway) all your opponents are drawing nearly dead -- your focus should emphasize getting the most money into the pot and much less effort made to protect your hand. Leading with the intention of three-betting a raise is much more likely to get chips into to pot on this non-threatening board. Depending on my reads of the players in between Hero and Button and the action after my initial bet, I might lead and just call a Button raise, and then lead again on the turn hoping to trap the 'tweeners for at least one more BB. C/R the turn just scares away those drawing dead (but not aware that they are drawing dead).

One of the principle advantages of sets (other than that they are a strong hand!) is that they are disguised -- a lead and even a 3-bet is not likely to convince your opponents that you've hit top set -- they'll much more readily believe they are drawing live to TPTK, two-pair, or a flush draw played aggressively.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Bet this flop, hoping that button will raise you. Then you 3-bet, ideally with trapped callers that will now be facing two more small bets.

I probably would have 3-bet this pre-flop as well.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

You guys made good points and conviced me about the C/R; however, I would still re-raise pre-flop with the TT's.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would have 3-bet on flop to elminate players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean raise, since hero didn't lead the flop. Also, hand protection is the last thing you need to be worrying about here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did mean raise, and yes I want to eliminate players because wired tens don't win as often unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean here now. If you made a typo and meant to say that you advocated a 3-bet preflop, I'm with you. If you're advocating a check-raise on the flop, then I disagree.

[ QUOTE ]
Since there is a 2 flush, I want to play aggressively so I don't get outdrawn.

I don't quite understand where your coming from?

[/ QUOTE ]

You will never be able to fold a flush draw on this board, but you should not be concerned about this. You have a huge equity edge over everyone else in this hand, including flush draws. Your goal should be to get as many people to put in as many bets as possible in this hand.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Reraise pf. There's too much money to be made on TT to be letting these limpers off the hook cheaply.

Leading the flop is a must. You want as many bets going into this flop as possible. The limpers might fold the turn UI. The LP guy will probably raise and you have a brilliant trap. Checking was a no win situation here. If LP hadn't bet this flop for you it would be a total disaster. As it is you have a bad choice between blasting out the limpers or keeping the pot small. You cannot expect to regularly make up these small bets you are giving upon big bet streets.

Given the way you played it I would raise.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

the way you played it: smooth call and lead the turn. why blast out people who are drawing nearly dead? and flush draws will stay in anyways?

the way i would have played it: raise preflop and lead the flop.

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Yes, I am an advocate of 3-betting the flop.

On the flop, I originally thought a check raise was good; however, several people, including yourself, have convinced me otherwise.

Thanks for your input!

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Here's the whole hand.

Absolute Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: (14.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+1 has Ah 4h (straight, five high).
Hero has Ts Td (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 16.75 BB. </font>

I wonder if raising the flop would have folded this guy out.
Oh well. It was nice of him to save me a dollar on the river.

Here's a hand I had again this afternoon...after I read all your responses. I still don't like 3 betting with TT from the blinds. I'm going my own way on this one from now on.

Absolute Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, Button calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Button doesn't show.
Outcome: Button wins 9 BB. </font>

Re: TT in the SB Button raises pre-flop
 

Hey grgr, bet the flop if you are going to take this preflop line. The intention of course is to 3-bet if someone raises. Another play that you might want to make (an expert play imo) to to just call if the button raises and then bet out on 4th steet no matter what card comes. This play tends to work better against a larger field on a more drawless flop, but it is always something to think about.

Personally, I think you should go ahead and 3-bet this preflop at most tables.

Brad