Straight forward stats question
 

Is it possible to beat the PS 2/4 6max or any 6max game for that matter with a VP$IP of ~19?

I used to be too loose so I tried to tighten up for a while, but now I think I am way too tight. I don't how much of a problem this is, if it a problem at all. Thanks ahead of time.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

I'm not familiar with the PS 2/4 games, but I strongly suspect a VPIP of 19% does not preclude you from being a winning player.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

Is it possible to have a positive expectation and be that tight?
Sure.

Is it optimal?
No way.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

I am doing pretty well at ps 2/4 with a VP$P somewhere around 21% (last time I checked). I have no doubt that you can win with a VP$P at 19%.

In fact, my personal view is that it's much easier to win at those tables with that kind of VP$P than one much higher (i.e., over 25%).

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

iirc i played 2/4 and 3/6 SH with a vpip of 19-20~. I was a very marginal winner and it helped a lot when i loosened up. Sure it's possible to win being that tight but it's nowhere near optimal.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

If your playing your playing your blinds correctly, (not to tight) and you are paying attention to some blind stealing then you should be ok and also have the advantage that with less action on your tables you can play more tables at the same time.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

I see that I need to loosen up a bit. I will try that over my next few sessions and post a couple of hands that I would usualy fold to see if it is +EV to play them.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

If you're to my left, I'll note your 19% and steal against you much more often than I would normally. One of two things will have to happen then:
1) You'll have to loosen up considerably, or
2) You won't have a positive expectation at all in that game, in my opinion.

Really, most of the loosening up from full ring games to shorthanded comes in stealing and defending. You just aren't doing enough of either at 19% to be really successful.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

I think you can do much better than just being a marginal winner even with quite a low VPIP. Take a look at Peter_rus post comparing his 28 vpip 17% pfr and a 20 vpip 13% raise.
Peter rus stat comparison

Both players have very similar win rates (4.01 bb/100 vs 3.59 bb/100) at party 5/10.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

Thanks for posting that link. I hadn't seen it before. Seems like pretty good evidence that different styles can work.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

You can do very nicely with a 19% PFR assuming it's the right 19%. Most of the money you win comes from a relatively small number of good hands. Of course you are leaving some money on the table because you are folding a bunch of marginally profitable hands.

I'm assuming that you do not follow up tight preflop play by being too tight on the flop. That is very common and would be bad.

Overly tight play tends to lose effectiveness over time as people notice and begin to steal more.

One thing about a 2/4 game is many people almost never steal. You must not overdefend your blinds against these players unless you want to lose your shirt. Loosening up isn't always good.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

Another was Vehn who was a respected 20 vpip player winning over 3bb/100

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Another was Vehn who was a respected 20 vpip player winning over 3bb/100

[/ QUOTE ]
With a 50% SB? That's part of the problem here.

But no doubt he could have done it. 19% is not a big deal by itself as long as there aren't postflop issues in the same package.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

[ QUOTE ]
With a 50% SB? That's part of the problem here.

[/ QUOTE ]

??????????????

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

What limit was Vehn playing?

VP$IP should be higher when it only costs 1/2 bet to complete the small blind. It also should be higher in a more passive lower-limit game. 19% is more understandable at 5/10 than in the 2/4 game OP asked about.

Re: Straight forward stats question
 

[ QUOTE ]
What limit was Vehn playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

he was playing $10/$20

vpip from sb 29%