Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

As a beginner playing 1/2 cents NL HE on PokerStars, I can merely speculate on having as a goal eventual play of NL HE in Las Vegas. I envision staying downtown, and playing there alone. Many, many times I've flown from Albuquerque to Las Vegas, arriving Sunday about noon, hopping on the bus to Downtown (fast, cheap and fun!), and staying at Binion's East Side (the old original hotel) or more lately at the Four Queens (advantage really nice rooms for $20 to $25 nightly), and playing NL Hold'em at the lowest stakes games they have. Then Friday night I'd fly back home, arriving near midnight.

Starting about 18 years ago, and ending 2 years ago, I always played craps. Presently there are no 25 cents craps tables, and precious few dollar tables downtown. Of course, this was the hallmark of Binion's Horseshoe for many years, when they were not only the place where the World Series of Poker was played, but were also the World Center of Craps, with as many as 16 tables going, all full by 3 PM in the afternoon! Those were the days of craps, but now it's all poker, comparatively...

I knew I could play craps at FitzGerald's, Four Queens, Golden Nugget, Union Plaza, Las Vegas Club, Binion's, and Fremont, just there on Fremont Street, and half a dozen other casinos just off Fremont Street. I'm sure all those places are still there. But now my game is poker, the no limit type of hold'em. Though the highest stakes I've played is 1/2 cents on the internet, I've bought all the best poker books and now I've started to read them. It's not been a problem of capitalization, but I insist on being competitive before I attempt to move up in limits. I've been looking at the B&M Forum, and I've noticed the big thing is to talk about 20/40 poker, and higher when discussing Las Vegas poker, and now I'm sitting here trying to find out if I can play NL HE Downtown Las Vegas for $1/2, $2/4, $3/6 and maybe $5/10 tops! Now that's reverse bragging, right?

I'd been at Binion's when prior World Series of Poker tournaments were held, and I respect Binion's has been big, big and big at poker! On TV I've seen both Union Plaza and Golden Nugget having poker tournaments, so I suspect their poker rooms are decent, at the very least.

So I'm sending out this request for help, concerning the Downtown Las Vegas poker scene! Which casinos have poker, which are likely to have NL HE, and what are minimum stakes I must prepare for? It would be a crying shame to put all the effort I'm putting into poker, only to find out a year or two from now, after I arrive in Downtown Las Vegas, that they simply don't have NL HE, don't you agree? It would break this old man's heart, if you really want to know!

Dave

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Hi Dave,

I was Downtown a few months ago and Binions was the only place with poker.

They had a 1/2 (200 max) NL and a 5/10 (1000) NL game going with a few tables of each. They had limit games as well. Roughly 10-12 tables and it was moderately busy.

One of the pit bosses said the Golden Nugget might be getting poker soon, but not the 4 Queens.

Honestly though, you're better off playing at the Palms or on The Strip where the games are much better.

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

GN has had poker for at least a year now. Plaza has had poker for quite a while. Your only other option is El Cortez but when I was there they only had 1 hold'em table and 1 stud table.

GN had 2-4 and 3-6 hold'em all the time as did the Plaza. I didn't play alot of NL but GN also had a 1-2 NL game going when I was there last January. The max buy in was $100.

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Plaza, Binions, Golden Nugget all have poker.

All run daily tournaments as well. I forget the buy in amounts, but the one at the Plaza cost me about $100 including rebuys.

Binions has a pretty large room, and there were about 20 tables going on a Saturday afternoon. They had $100 buy in NL and limit $1-2 up to about $4-8.

I think Plaza had NL and limit going as well.

Please note that Binions is no longer owned by Binion family or Harrahs.

BJ and craps everywhere downtown sucks. Most places are bad rules and at least $5 min on BJ, and also $5 minimum on craps.

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Binions and the Plaza are DUMPS. The only place I play downtown is Golden Nugget. Nice casino, good variety of games. Check AllVegasPoker for updates.

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

You won't find anything less than 2-4 limit poker, but you'll find plenty of that, even downtown. You won't find anything less than 1-2 blinds no limit hold'em in vegas anywhere. However, the best low limit no limit (i.e. 1-2 blinds, $100 or $200 max buy-in) is not downtown, it's on the strip, mostly at the far opposite end from downtown. Binion's tends to have a no max buy-in game, which is a lot sharkier than say MGM or excalibur, where the buy-ins are capped at $200 and $100 respectively. If you have read lots of books, you're light years ahead of the tourists, but you'll still have to pay some dues of course getting experience, which many of the local players (such as myself) have you way outchipped on.

Binions and nugget have tournaments, they are ok. Personally, I prefer plaza's tourneys for downtown, particularly the midnight one. Decent chips, decent structure.

As for the 20-40 craze on the B&M forum, well, we don't all play 20-40 constantly. I mostly play 1-2 or 2-5 no limit, with a smidge of limit (mostly 4-8 and 6-12 when I'm drinking and dont give a ...).

As for modern day craps...

I haven't played everywhere downtown, but I have walked through most of the casinos on fremont street, and you're going to be lucky to find anything lower than $5 minimum, and many don't even have 10x odds anymore, they have 3x4x5x, which I HATE. Plaza once again stands out because they still have 10x odds. (Incidentally, plaza still has some of the best blackjack in town also). There are a few places that have higher than 10x odds, but they are rare.

For $1 craps with 10x odds and 25c chips (i.e. allowing you to say place the 5 for $1.25 and get paid $1.50), the only two places I have been in that have that game are in henderson, and they are little dive casinos (but they are FUN and they have free beer there). There may still be one of these games elsewhere, but if so I haven't personally been there yet.

Boulder station still spreads $2 craps with 10x odds, no quarter checks tho.

al

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

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As for modern day craps...


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Thanks for the info, Al.

Do you know if O'Shea's offer $1 craps?

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

casino royale has $2 with 100x odds. they make up for that tho by raping the tourists on prop bets, which are worse than usual. of course i don't play these much anyway so no biggie there.

i think osheas is $5 strip standard.

al

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

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It's not been a problem of capitalization, but I insist on being competitive before I attempt to move up in limits.

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While I understand your desire to always be the strongest player at the table, dont forget to consider the effect the rake has on your long-run profitability. Playing low-stakes raked games is very difficult. Assuming your bankroll and skill can support it, you should plan to move up as quickly as possible to middle limit games.

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Yours is a cheery and encouraging post, and right on target! Thank You...

It was most encouraging to me that Binion's has the low stakes games I'm interested in! I'd expected there might be half a dozen poker rooms in Downtown Las Vegas, but perhaps 4 of them would be second-rate and inactive. That Binion's is so positively useful for me, and my interest in low-stakes games, is music to my ears! After all, I've been with Binion's since the big food and consession strikes, probably around 1987. Their response, at the time, was to convert the big room in back on the second floor of the casino proper into a wonderful all-you-can-eat buffet! That was there for perhaps 3 years, and it was great to spend maybe $5.99 for great prime beef and just about anything else you could ask for. In summer, and on other reasonably warm days, they'd throw open the sliding glass doors to Fremont Street, and the strikers were just feet away from the 25 cents poker table. Very interesting experiences, they were. So I'm delighted with your portrayal of the NL HE situation Downtown!

Dave

PS: Tell me more about low-stakes NL HE on the strip, and especially the Palms, please! The Palms is interesting to me since Mr. Joe Maloof got his start here in New Mexico many years ago, and when he outgrew us he went to Las Vegas, and the Palms is the result. Literally it was his kids that went there, as he'd died in the meantime. If they would be low-stakes that would interest me too!

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

All good news, and thanks!

I've played much at Union Plaza, and not as much at Golden Nugget, and I mean craps and not poker. I've made a lot of money at Union Plaza! In those days, the Plaza referred to the casino on Main Street, across the big parking lots, at what is now referred to as Main Street Casino (famous for their wonderful buffet today, especially their breakfast!). Cheap and real good, if I do say so myself. The old Plaza had a single dealer at the craps player, probably a fellow from Puerto Rico. He was good, being all of the boxman, stickman, and both dealers. What a nice place to play!

Yes, I've played craps at El Cortez, but it was always a new craps dealer being broken in. It was thus slow, too slow for me. Of course, Binion's had the very best and most professional craps dealers, and they were a hard act to follow!

Good info...

Dave

PS: Knowing what you all are sharing with me will save lots of walking, not so easy for an old man. Thanks very much!

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Gee, more great news! My eventual interest will be in NL HE tournaments, but as a poker beginner I need to learn limit HE as an introduction to Hold'em, then NL HE (which is all I play, as stated above), and only then can I go to NL HE tournaments. But that there are mini NL HE tournaments is positively wonderful! By the time I get to Las Vegas I'll have worked with HoH (Harrington on Hold'em), and maybe even one of the other 3 Harrington/Robertie books Robertie states as being planned (first will come out on 2+2 within 2 weeks!). Hence I'll be playing tournaments by then. Just as I'm now playing 1/2 cents NL HE ring games, when I start on tournaments it'll be at the Golden Palace 10 cents + 1 cents entry fee single-table NL HE tournaments. Why pay big bucks to learn? I spend my money on books at this juncture.

So you are the bearer of even more good news about Downtown Las Vegas poker, and Thank You! It would seem Downtown continues with it's reputation of attempting to find a way of competing with the Strip.

By the way, I agree about Downtown craps being crappy! That's the case everywhere in the world, as these fellows have figured out how to cheat at poker with impunity. That's another matter...

Dave

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Thanks much for the linkage to the Las Vegas Poker Room website! It's just what I needed, from a cursory look-see.

As a person of considerable vintage, I prefer to refer to Binion's and Union Plaza as having character! When I say I've stayed on the 3rd floor of Old Binion's, I'm referring to a hotel purchased by Jack Binion in 1950. It's quaint, and they've done not a thing to cause that; it just is! And I can walk down 3 flights of stairs (including the very long walk from the fattened up 2nd floor, due to the catwalks above the casino proper), and be right in the casino. Or I can duck into a hole in the wall, and I'm in a totally different world immediately (the hotel). I can explore the back hallways, and think about the way gambling was back 50 and more years ago!

So for me these places aren't dumps; they have character!

Dave

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Thanks especially for the info you've supplied about the state of affairs concerning poker, and Las Vegas! As a local, you know ALL the angles, and your contribution is valuable!

Everything I've heard is that typical B&M games outside Las Vegas as really, really easy. A $5/10 NL game at these B&M games might be compared with 50/100 cents online poker, say at PokerStars (where I presently practice). HOWEVER. Las Vegas poker is tough, as I understand it. So many people have picked up to go professional at Las Vegas, and they have a rude awakening when they get to these tables in Las Vegas! Play in Las Vegas is primarily a process of picking on the easy tourists. Among other things, that's why I prefer to play at the lowest possible stakes levels in Las Vegas, and in tournaments too. After all, I'm a beginner. By the time my education is done, so I can be competitive in the many Indian casinos that surround my home here in Albuquerque, it will be remotely possible for me to go to Las Vegas and not totally lose my shirt the first day!

Thanks for the inputs! If you should want to elaborate a bit more concerning where the 1/2 NL HE games are located in Las Vegas, you'd have my full attention! And tell a bit more about the ins and outs of poker at these favorite places of yours. Please!

Dave

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

Last time I was in Las Vegas O'Shea's had $1 craps...

Dave

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

When I figured out how they were able to cheat at craps (the house, that is), and how deadly the mechanism was, I gave up playing craps. That's why I'm moving into poker these days, which harmonizes welll with my innate talents.

Thanks for the info about craps, though!

Dave

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

I totally agree, concerning rake expense, and size of the pot! Certainly if the pot is $100 or more, and maximum rake is $3, rake expense is just 3%. However, if they take 10% of the pot, to a limit of $3, and the pot is $15, rake expense is thus 10%. Even at the 1/2 cents table PokerStars takes 5%, but they only take rake on complete dollar amounts within the pot. Hence, the 99 cents pot costs $0.00 rake, and the $1.99 pot costs 5 cents, using their formula. My numbers only apply to NL HE, as I understand they charge nothing at 2/4 cents limit HE.

In my learning game (1/2 cents NL HE), the average pot is roughly $1.00, so most pots suffer no rake expense. Yet this game is especially loose, so the educational advantages of learning in this game are skewed way over to one side (looseness!).

Being of the elder generation, patience is a characteristic I've had a lot of time to develop. I don't want to be just the top player at a table. I continue to work on understanding the fundamentals of the game. I prefer to think I'm waiting until I have competitiveness, as a poker player. My competition can be expected to have spent a lifetime playing and learning poker, so I must substitute books for actual playing experience, to keep up.

Dave

Re: Downtown Las Vegas Visits Long-Term Objective
 

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When I figured out how they were able to cheat at craps (the house, that is), and how deadly the mechanism was, I gave up playing craps.

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Can you explain this further? I would love to know how this is possible?