did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter

CO (t560)
Button (t1340)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1400)
UTG (t3520)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t2220)
Hero (t1480)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t20, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t70</font>, CO calls t70, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls t50, MP1 calls t50.

Flop: (t310) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t310</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t490</font>, UTG calls t490, MP1 folds, Hero folds.

Turn: (t1600) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t1600) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1600

The hands that i was against was A9 of hearts and A2 diamonds. The A9, of course, took down the pot. About my play...My logic was, i should need trips here to win the hand, meaning i'll need the 6 at least but if i catch my 6, anyone with a 5 gets a straight, so i figured although i'm somewhat pot comitted, don't i fold knowing that he'll probably bet into me on the turn leaving me with not much to do?
Any opinions would be really nice here.
Thanks

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

1)Why are you raising PF?
2)Why are you folding on the flop getting something like 8:1 with ~6 outs?

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

3) how the hell are you pot commited?

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

I know there was a time where I wasn't a winning player and wasn't very good at poker, but damn, I know I never sucked this much. I think this is a jopke, please say it is.

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

i'm not too good of a player, but i was raising pf because 77 is a preflop raise hand in my opinion, and the pot odds of 6/47 are just about equal to 1/8 so that doesnt really favor me greatly either.

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

1. don't raise preflop
2. You need to call the raise on the flop despite probably being beat, a 6 and 5 are most likely outs for you so you have more than enough odds to call.

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

no need for all this hating, i'm just starting to learn the game and would appreciate some positive advice instead of this crap

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

10 handed 66 is crap, anything below jj is crap 10 handed this early on.

the raise preflop isnt that bad with deep stacks and if you hit you will get paid off but you definately need to fold this flop.

believe it or not the "Crap" you are getting for this hand is positive advice, just dont do it.

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

but lethal, arent you basically saying i made the right move?

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

the right move here is to call and try to hit a set. A lot of people here would call a 3xBB bet trying to hit a set, so raising is not THAT bad, but you really should limp.

the worse play is not folding the flop.

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

you mean folding it, which is what i did?

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

When you say this is a fold on the flop, do you mean before or after his raise?

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

I would not raise pre flop with 66. When you got reraised that was the danger sign to fold the hand.

Oh and never ever chase hands unless you have a lot of outs!!

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

hello alexd [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

honestly, your problems did start PF. because of your raise, you were 'forced' to bet an exorborant amount on the flop (too much actually). your lead out on the flop is fine IMO (almost necessary to gain some info to entertain the idea of playing this hand past the flop) - as your 6's are likely the best hand. but you probably should have aimed a little closer to 3/4 pot IMO.

[for the record IN THIS POT - i slap myself for raising pre-flop and check/fold]

rewind:

you limp pre-flop (remember that next time). 4 - heck, we'll say even 5 now without the PF raise, see the flop. pot=T100 vs. T310.

bad news: 5 limpers (example), two hearts, an over to your 7.
good news: likely still holding the best hand, inside straight draw.

you bet out T80 (this could be argued with the number players, but if you proceed under the premise that this is a favorable flop, it's the right thing to do IMO). depending on the raise amount, # of callers, etc. you could then make a decision about the price to see the turn....or you could fold and only be out T100 (vs. T385).

with the small/mid pairs, it's all about getting to the flop as cheaply as possible. when the flop is semi-favorable, you will be in a chip position to lead out and evaluate the action that follows. all of this is MUCH harder to do, and a lot more costly when YOU built the PF pot to T310. granted with the all of the flop action on this flop, it might be difficult to determine all of your 'true' outs, pot odds, etc.etc. but i think you'll find your decision less clouded when you don't see 1/3 of your stack in the middle --- no reason for it to be this way. your "eh, 3xBB PFr sounds about right" had profound influence on your post flop decisions.

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

Thanks alot bluefeet, that makes alot of sense, but i still am somewhat confused at not raising big with a middle pair, dont i wanna isolate myself and AK, AQ, AJ, or something of that type of hand and go to the flop 50/50.
I can see that it'd hurt if i'm up against an overpair as well as how i play the flop when it comes Q 7 5 and i'm still holdin 66.
ANy insight?

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

no

Re: did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?
 

keep this in mind - most all middle pairs are going to be losers. an extremely small percentage will pay off big. the only way you are getting the big money is if you flop your set. PF, there is a given statistical chance of this happening (there are 50 unseen cards, only 2 help you....do the math). actions that you take to influence the number of players to the flop do not effect the likelyhood of you hitting your set. if you have to play 66 'x' number of times before winning a pot of say T500 -- would it stand to reason that you would want to keep each chances' cost at a minimum?

'raise big PF' accomplishes next to nothing...almost every time. if they all fold - woohoo, you picked up T30 in blinds (at what risk?). if you get called, you MUST consider yourself 'behind' to any flop lacking your set (as MOST will contain at least 1 overcard) . "damn, does he have an overpair? did he pair up w/ that A,K,Q,J,T,9,8,7?". throw in positional problems, drawing boards, and the inherent post-flop responsibilities of being the 'opener' PF....uhboy!

often even a flopped sets require a great deal of thought, as there will likely be draws involved as well. and GOD FORBID you flop 3 undercards - giving you now a lousey overpair!! or in the hand you posted - there will be occasions where it is 'somewhat favorable'...do you see the difficulties in post flop betting a T300 pot vs a T100 pot?

bottom line is that regardless of what comes on the flop (baring quads), you have work to do. you'll find the work at lot more managable when thoughts like 'pot committed' don't come into play.