The Amazing Paul Darden
 

the other day i was watching paul darden do some amazing things at lucky chances wpt event. now he wasn't amazing in the way he played, but there were more subtle and much more impresive things he was doing that i feel others might have missed when watching.

just so everyone can be situated, here is what the final table looked like:
http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/table.JPG

darden is in seat 1, folled by chris bigler, vince burgio, hellmuth, esfandiari, tommy garza.

now, before play even starts at the final table, darden is doing things i could only dream to.
http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/intro.JPG
here we see what will be many shots from darden's hole cam, but something is different. not only his darden now sitting in the 3 seat, he's also in camouflage.

now he moves back to his own seat to play a few hands (or not as the case maybe. from now until the table is three handed, darden will only be shown playing three hands, even though his lead steadily increases.)
http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/1st.JPG

http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/2nd.JPG

http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/3rd.JPG

http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/4th.JPG

now, in an interesting call of an allin, darden sheds his protective shell and returns to let his true self show.
http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/5th.JPG

after losing that hand, darden returns to his alternate table image for one last hand, before finishing the rest of the tournament in his true style.
http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/6th.JPG

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

the first season editing was terrible, get over it.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

Paul Darden is black.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

At least they don't fake hands like WSOP.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

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At least they don't fake hands hands like WSOP.

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Hmm...

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

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At least they don't fake hands like WSOP.

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WSOP fakes hands? Explain please.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

The answer is pretty simply. The "Holecard cam" is on Chris Bigler while the main camera is on Darden.

As to the WSOP thing, there's been like 3 seperate instances pointed out where hands were faked.

One that definitely was spliced up badly was the Hellmuth/Tony D hand in 2003WSOP. Board had two jacks and a king on the turn, and Hellmuth had 77. Tony D had JT. Tony made a sizeable bet, Hellmuth raised, and Tony D folded. Except when the camera is on Tony D, he's not holding chips, but when it gets to his hole-card cam you can clearly see him holding a stack of chips in his right hand.

It's all on Paul Phillip's page in greater explanation.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

[ QUOTE ]
As to the WSOP thing, there's been like 3 seperate instances pointed out where hands were faked.

One that definitely was spliced up badly was the Hellmuth/Tony D hand in 2003WSOP. Board had two jacks and a king on the turn, and Hellmuth had 77. Tony D had JT. Tony made a sizeable bet, Hellmuth raised, and Tony D folded. Except when the camera is on Tony D, he's not holding chips, but when it gets to his hole-card cam you can clearly see him holding a stack of chips in his right hand.

It's all on Paul Phillip's page in greater explanation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you beat me to it, but - http://www.improving.org/paulp/poker...uth/index.html

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

[ QUOTE ]
The answer is pretty simply. The "Holecard cam" is on Chris Bigler while the main camera is on Darden.

As to the WSOP thing, there's been like 3 seperate instances pointed out where hands were faked.

One that definitely was spliced up badly was the Hellmuth/Tony D hand in 2003WSOP. Board had two jacks and a king on the turn, and Hellmuth had 77. Tony D had JT. Tony made a sizeable bet, Hellmuth raised, and Tony D folded. Except when the camera is on Tony D, he's not holding chips, but when it gets to his hole-card cam you can clearly see him holding a stack of chips in his right hand.

It's all on Paul Phillip's page in greater explanation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always thought it was kinda fishy... But just forgot about it. It's actually sad really. ESPN is suppose to be THE channel for sports reporting, and even though some don't consider Poker a sport (it's a mental sport where physical tells are important though), the fact that they make-up things is somewhat shocking. I already knew they edited different moments together to make it look more compelling - which is bad, but just making it up... Makes me wonder what to believe...

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

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Paul Darden is black.

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Ever seen the palms of a black person's hands? Lots of them have white palms or a very light brownish color.

Edit: now that I look again, you can see the back of the thumbs in some pics and they are white as a ghost!

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

Once again, to clarify:

http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/2nd.JPG

^^^ Look at how the hands are placed in the hole card cam. Left hand cupped, fingers together, and slightly over the right hand.

Now, look at this picture.

http://www.visitthesaint.com/Media/3rd.JPG

Check Bigler, old white guy on right. See?

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

Are you Paul Phillips' advance team?

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

[ QUOTE ]

One that definitely was spliced up badly was the Hellmuth/Tony D hand in 2003WSOP. Board had two jacks and a king on the turn, and Hellmuth had 77. Tony D had JT. Tony made a sizeable bet, Hellmuth raised, and Tony D folded. Except when the camera is on Tony D, he's not holding chips, but when it gets to his hole-card cam you can clearly see him holding a stack of chips in his right hand.

It's all on Paul Phillip's page in greater explanation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got an AVI of the hand, (I think I got it here actually) and just to clarify: on fourth street the board is KJ4[J], Tony D checks, Phil bets out, Tony D check-raises, and then Phil re-raises.

And, I don't believe Paul Phillips proved that the hand was 'faked', but just that they really butchered the splicing of the footage. Two very different things.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

He didn't prove the hands were faked with the footage, but it is part of a broader field of evidence that indicts ESPN for the WSOP 2003.

I think producers may have even admitted that they faked some hands.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

One that definitely was spliced up badly was the Hellmuth/Tony D hand in 2003WSOP. Board had two jacks and a king on the turn, and Hellmuth had 77. Tony D had JT. Tony made a sizeable bet, Hellmuth raised, and Tony D folded. Except when the camera is on Tony D, he's not holding chips, but when it gets to his hole-card cam you can clearly see him holding a stack of chips in his right hand.

It's all on Paul Phillip's page in greater explanation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got an AVI of the hand, (I think I got it here actually) and just to clarify: on fourth street the board is KJ4[J], Tony D checks, Phil bets out, Tony D check-raises, and then Phil re-raises.

And, I don't believe Paul Phillips proved that the hand was 'faked', but just that they really butchered the splicing of the footage. Two very different things.

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Well, as he says, you can believe what you like, but would YOU fold for ~40k in an ~80k pot with JJJ here?

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

Apparently, at least in the case of this one hand, it was a bad editing job rather than a faked hand. I talked to Tony D about this hand during a cash game at the Bicycle a few months ago, and he confirmed that he folded trip Jacks on that hand. However, they must have either edited in shots from the wrong timepoints during the hand, or edited in him looking at a previous (or later) hand where he again had JT. According to Tony D, he definitely folded the trips.

Everybody else at our table was shocked also when he told us this (in response to my question). We all had thought it was faked, even in the absence of any indisputable evidence, because none of us could believe he would fold in that spot.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

Nice hat.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, at least in the case of this one hand, it was a bad editing job rather than a faked hand. I talked to Tony D about this hand during a cash game at the Bicycle a few months ago, and he confirmed that he folded trip Jacks on that hand. However, they must have either edited in shots from the wrong timepoints during the hand, or edited in him looking at a previous (or later) hand where he again had JT. According to Tony D, he definitely folded the trips.

Everybody else at our table was shocked also when he told us this (in response to my question). We all had thought it was faked, even in the absence of any indisputable evidence, because none of us could believe he would fold in that spot.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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Well, he obviously easily still could be playing poker.....

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, at least in the case of this one hand, it was a bad editing job rather than a faked hand. I talked to Tony D about this hand during a cash game at the Bicycle a few months ago, and he confirmed that he folded trip Jacks on that hand. However, they must have either edited in shots from the wrong timepoints during the hand, or edited in him looking at a previous (or later) hand where he again had JT. According to Tony D, he definitely folded the trips.

Everybody else at our table was shocked also when he told us this (in response to my question). We all had thought it was faked, even in the absence of any indisputable evidence, because none of us could believe he would fold in that spot.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

did you ask him why he made such a rediclious fold?

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

the hellmuth/i forget the other guys name(johnny g or something like that) hand from the 2003 wsop where he folded his trips for no reason was discussed in length by paul phillips and i could not believe the fold when i first saw the episode, the pot was huge, he had trips on an uncoordinated board and he folded to hellmuths small raise, plus the hole card cam shows phil hellmuths seat, but no phil hellmuth in the hand. i believe this is what they were referring to.

rj

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

What a jopke!

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

Has the hand played between Scotty Nguyen vs Chuc Hoang been discussed as far as hands being faked by ESPN?

As you may recall during the 2003 WSOP ME coverage, apparently Hoang had KK and Scotty had AK, and the board came Kxx, and Hoang moved in. Scotty agonized for about 5 minutes and finally laid it down.

However, this was at a non-tv table (no hole card cams) and the cards were never shown down. How would they have known what they had? Do the producers go over and ask the players? That really doesn't seem realistic.

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

I noticed something like this with chip stacks for one of the WPT events. I know stacks fluctuate but it was crazy how someone would have the short stack but they would show them as the chip leader (when they showed the leader board) and then a few hands later they really were the chip leader. Very bad editing!

Re: The Amazing Paul Darden
 

[ QUOTE ]
Has the hand played between Scotty Nguyen vs Chuc Hoang been discussed as far as hands being faked by ESPN?

As you may recall during the 2003 WSOP ME coverage, apparently Hoang had KK and Scotty had AK, and the board came Kxx, and Hoang moved in. Scotty agonized for about 5 minutes and finally laid it down.

However, this was at a non-tv table (no hole card cams) and the cards were never shown down. How would they have known what they had? Do the producers go over and ask the players? That really doesn't seem realistic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many believe the producers just asked the players what they had.

That can obviously lead to trouble, asking poker players what hands they had.