Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

I usually never show my cards, ever, unless I feel the opponent was playing well, and folded properly given my play and he deserves to know - and even then, I do it rarely and usually to tight tables and it's a high pair - it helps in blind stealing.

Anyway, recently I tried NoblePoker, and didn't really know what the game was like. I sat down waiting for the BB, and it was neutral preflop, extremely tight postflop for a 0.5-1 holdem game. Anyway, it gets to me, I get 72o, and raise once it comes round - but this time there were 4 in the flop, instead of the 2-3 that usually went in. The flop's low and raggy, and no help to me. I check, the bet starts to my right, goes all the way around, and I raise. They all fold...

I then do what I never do, I show.

After that, the table goes a bit nuts, but I have to sit out cos I know they'll be at me and I get no good cards for a couple of circuits.

Anyway, I kicked myself for showing - it's just drawing attention to yourself. But it did in fact light up the table for about 50 hands.

Does anyone ever do something like this, and what's your experience of it?

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

Im no expert, but if im playing against people who i know tilt after being bluffed, i show low high card bluffs. i never show against people i've never played against. I'll only do it if it may yield good results.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

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I'll only do it if it may yield good results.

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There's no way to be absolutely sure it will. For that reason, I do not show my cards.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

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but I have to sit out cos I know they'll be at me and I get no good cards for a couple of circuits.

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Would you have regreted your showing the bluff had you picked up a nice rush of great starting hands afterwards?

Having fun is important it's .5/1 the table is to tight it was worth a try.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

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After that, the table goes a bit nuts, but I have to sit out cos I know they'll be at me and I get no good cards for a couple of circuits.

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This is why you sat out?

Imo, you should be concentrating more on your game than on your table image at this point.

b

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

huh? What's wrong with folding without betting on a tilty table if you have awful cards?

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

Good point Stuey! I knew there must be a reason for me doing it [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

Its generally not good to bluff into 4 50/1, especially when you won't have any outs if called, I know you already know this. Sure it's fun, but so is killing 50/1 for 4-5 BB per 100, enjoy it while you can, because win rates drop as you move up, and there is no doubt it feels a lot better when you are crushing your game than when you are grinding out a bet or so per 100.

Good luck.

Mack

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

If you are going to show your hand.. you MUST play the next couple of orbits (tighten up more than your normal standard) and if you hit a real hand blast away. Nobody will believe you have a hand.
HEPFAP recommends you play small suited connectors once in a while to throw your opponents off. Showing 72 is going to throw them WAY off.
It is the same just after you show down a nut hand, you can usually steal a blind with nothing.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

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huh? What's wrong with folding without betting on a tilty table if you have awful cards?

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but I have to sit out cos I know they'll be at me and I get no good cards for a couple of circuits.


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Sitting out usually implies that you're not being dealt in any hands but are waiting for the 'run' of bad cards to be over. I probably misinterpreted your statement.

b

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

You say you "usually never show [your] cards, ever, unless..." -- okay, that right there highlights a problem in your logic. You can't really "usually never" do something; you either never do it, or you sometimes do it, or you always do it. So which is it gonna be?

I say, if you're going to show your cards (and I did say "if"), you should really have a good reason to do so. That reason may be to show everyone what a good play you made to earn their admiration and respect, or it may make the game "friendlier" and add to your enjoyment, or it may be a move designed to throw your opponents off in later hands. Anytime you show your cards, you are giving your opponents free information, but I won't deny that showing cards may be correct strategy in the hands of an expert.

Feeling that your "opponent was playing well, and folded properly" is not a good reason in and of itself to show cards, however. You're reinforcing your opponents' behavior when they make the right play, which is generally only a good poker play in the Bizarro world. You might want to show down a big hand if you tend to bluff a lot and want people to always think you're betting with big hands, so they'll keep folding. But good players will see through this, and know you were probaby bluffing if you *didn't* show your cards on other hands. You're now giving away info on how often you bluff, even on hands you aren't showing.

Personally, I say if people want to see my cards, they can put their money in the pot. I tend to get amnesia when nobody calls me.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

I thought your topic "deliberately annoying the table" was going to be about insulting the other players' mothers or something. I was once instructed by the floorman at Binions that this is Not part of the game.

PairTheBoard

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

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Sitting out usually implies that you're not being dealt in any hands but are waiting for the 'run' of bad cards to be over. I probably misinterpreted your statement.

b

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tnx for reply. I see your point now - it was my fault for using ambiguous English in the first place!

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

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You say you "usually never show [your] cards, ever, unless..." -- okay, that right there highlights a problem in your logic. You can't really "usually never" do something; you either never do it, or you sometimes do it, or you always do it. So which is it gonna be?


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You're waaaay too pedantic, bud. take 'usually' to mean 'most of the time' if you like, which I think translates into 'sometimes' in your simplified logic system.

Certainty and frequency of doing stuff sometimes needs a little more than 'never/sometimes/always' in the real world, doesn't it? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Okay, I should have used the words 'usually don't' but if you have to point a flaw out here, make it my bad English, not bad logic

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I say, if you're going to show your cards (and I did say "if"), you should really have a good reason to do so.

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Fair enough. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

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I thought your topic "deliberately annoying the table" was going to be about insulting the other players' mothers or something. I was once instructed by the floorman at Binions that this is Not part of the game.

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I have used the "mother attack" online before. But I reserve the tactic for jackoffs who are berating the fish due to ego or tilt problems.

There was this guy (I refer to them as poachers) who was relentlessly picking on one player at the table. The "fish" was playing every hand and getting some lucky breaks. I finally told the poacher to STFU and let people play how they want. He then started atacking my "terrible" play and calling me gay. (This is what immature passive-aggressive latents always do: go for the "gay" attack.) So I proceeded to advise him of all kinds of things I believed his mother to be doing with people of all nationalities. Then I started joking a bit to try and calm him down.

This all had a pretty good effect on the table: everyone loosened up a bit, the poacher went on complete tilt, i looked like the good guy, the salmon didn't leave: and he even folded sometimes to my river bets which he wasn't doing before.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying your grammar is bad, I'm saying that's really the wrong attitute to have about showing cards in the first place.

Many players know it's usually wrong to show cards when they don't have to, but then they show 'em anyhow. Better to either not show at all, or have very good reasons for why you're doing it.

I'd start with actually never showing (as opposed to almost never), if I were you. You're much less likely to give away useful information this way. Against good opponents, be especially careful, because they may pick up a pattern on when you show cards and when you don't. Now, you're giving them information when you show cards *and* when you don't show.

I'm usually never this pedantic. No, that's not quite true.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

LOL. Nice Move.

PTB

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

My ante:

Showing bluffs gives away factual information, and is very rarely +ev. It does have the effect of loosening up your opponents, but they are all trying to "get you back". This is not a good situation. I think it's better to concentrate on your decisions, and let the image take care of itself.

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

You are aboslutely correct - I've taken this to heart. I won't be showing my cards again.


tnx

Re: Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic
 

I think showing could be good, but I'm not too sure. For the most part, I don't like to show my bluffs. But once in awhile I think it can create some possibly interesting opportunities or table conditions you may not have experienced. If anything, you can experiment and see what happens when the entire table is frothing at the mouth.

If the table will loosen up on you (e.g. calling down with mid pair or worse), then you'll get a few bucks thrown your way before they adjust appropriately...assuming that your opponents are paying attention. I'd definitely avoid playing hands out of position preflop and stealing blinds for awhile.

I've only been playing for a couple months online, but I find that when multitabling I'm too lazy to even think about the "show cards" button...esp. since the timer is really short anyway.

Like someone else said, there's other things to pay attention to or work on that are much more important than this.

Regards,
Wally