Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

I play 5-10 hold'em and recently looked at what I am paying in rakes per month and let me tell you, it is sickening what the house is charging to play poker!!!

I play about 6 hours a day, 5 days a week and last month spent over $2400.00 dollars to PartyPoker!!!!! Even with those stupid rake rebates of 27% off, I would have paid more than $1700. per month to play at a 5-10 table.

I am a good player, but now I see where most of my profits are going. They are absolute crooks!!!!

My mortgage isn't $2400.00 dollars.

Just curious if any of you have done the math and found out what you paid in rake fees last month??

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Look at how much money you made total playing $5/10 last month. Would you have made that money if the site didn't charge an assload of rake to let you play there? No.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Hahah I made almost that much in rakeback in a month dude....

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

If you made that much back in rakeback, what must you have paid in rakes???? Think about it! The highest rakeback programs pay 35%.

And as far as them providing a site for me to play, they are charging entirely more then they need to manage a poker table!!!

How can you think it is okay to pay $2400.00 to play poker??? Are you for real??? You think they need to charge that much to stay in business? They could reduce those fees and still make a fortune. They have 70,000 active players.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Party uses that rake to advertise and bring in new players for you to win money from. If they didn't collect the rake you would have to put together your own games which would cost you a lot of time and money.

I will probably pay more in rake this year than I earn from my full-time job. I don't mind paying rake so they can advertise and bring in new players (and make a profit).

They are not crooks, but we certainly should get a better deal since we are such high volume customers.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you made that much back in rakeback, what must you have paid in rakes???? Think about it! The highest rakeback programs pay 35%.

And as far as them providing a site for me to play, they are charging entirely more then they need to manage a poker table!!!

How can you think it is okay to pay $2400.00 to play poker??? Are you for real??? You think they need to charge that much to stay in business? They could reduce those fees and still make a fortune. They have 70,000 active players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that that was his point. He knows how much he paid in rake and it is worth it. He also knows how much $$$ he has made.

Do you think that there is any business out there that knowingly undercuts their potential profit to be nice?

If you don't like Capitilism, move to China. You won't even be told how much you pay in sales tax there.

Greg

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

I still don't see why you care, they make money, you make money, everyone wins? No? I don't get why your throwing such a fit about it, I mean if you don't want to pay the site so much money, don't play there?

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

It's called a free market, uncle Ho. Does it seem like a ripoff? yes. Vote with your feet

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]

Just curious if any of you have done the math and found out what you paid in rake fees last month??

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, are you serious? What the hell, you would think they could manage with a little less rake. May be time to pick up a new game.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

So it's ok for you to make as much as you can but its not okay for them to do the same thing?

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

5/10, for six hours a day/five days a week only results in 2400 in rake a month? Shouldn't it be a whole lot more?

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play 5-10 hold'em and recently looked at what I am paying in rakes per month and let me tell you, it is sickening what the house is charging to play poker!!!

I play about 6 hours a day, 5 days a week and last month spent over $2400.00 dollars to PartyPoker!!!!! Even with those stupid rake rebates of 27% off, I would have paid more than $1700. per month to play at a 5-10 table.

I am a good player, but now I see where most of my profits are going. They are absolute crooks!!!!

My mortgage isn't $2400.00 dollars.

Just curious if any of you have done the math and found out what you paid in rake fees last month??

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you have a proposed solution to this problem or do you just like to appear in forums and repeat facts that the posters have known about for years?

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

I am saying there is a reason PartyPoker is going public for 4-8 billion dollars and it aint because they are charging an affordable rake! At the lower limit tables (2-4 and 1-2), it is almost impossible to make money due to the rake. Do any of you realize that?

Why do you think these sites can offer such bonuses? They will recoup the bonus in a few days and you will end up paying them many times over!

Even the tourney games. Why is it that a $50 tourney has a $5 fee and a $30 tourney cost $3?? They both cost the site the same amount of money to manage operationally!

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

So, Get together a group of players who'll make
an (informal) commitment to move 100.00 onto
one paticular poker site on lets say this
Thanksgiving Day. If that site advertises
that their rake will only be 25% of the
industry average. The first poster is
absolutely correct. The replys are so
wrong I don't think I'll bother replying
to them. Cheers.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Hi,

No we don't want to play at zerorake.com and nobody is going to suggest we do.

Lori

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am saying there is a reason PartyPoker is going public for 4-8 billion dollars and it aint because they are charging an affordable rake! At the lower limit tables (2-4 and 1-2), it is almost impossible to make money due to the rake. Do any of you realize that?

Why do you think these sites can offer such bonuses? They will recoup the bonus in a few days and you will end up paying them many times over!

Even the tourney games. Why is it that a $50 tourney has a $5 fee and a $30 tourney cost $3?? They both cost the site the same amount of money to manage operationally!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

veresov
stranger


Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 3


[/ QUOTE ]

'Nuff said. You realize live casinos charge MUCH more in rake per hand? And also, if you say it's almost impossible to be a winner at 1/2 or 2/4, I'd say you don't have the ability to be playing 5/10.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Hopeful,

I agree that these replys are ridiculous and I am ceasing to speak on the matter any further.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hopeful,

I agree that these replys are ridiculous and I am ceasing to speak on the matter any further.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

In a free market, competition creates an incentive for lower prices.

In a monopoly situation, on the other hand, companies are able to extort exorbitant prices.

If it hadn't been for government regulation, for example, utility companies could have charged whatever they wanted, since your option would have been to pay what they charged, or do without.

Poker isn't exactly a monopoly market, since you can play wherever you want.

But competition is limited because 1.) people want to play where everyone else is playing, and 2.) the price is hidden. Many people never realize how much they're actually paying in rake.

So there's less competition than there should be.

Party is in a position a lot like Microsoft. Everybody wants to use the same operating system everybody else is using, and the price you're paying is often hidden.

So both companies get away with inferior products, crappy service, and exorbitant prices.

Unfortunately, there's not much anyone can do about it, except to play at sites that offer better deals.

Then of course there's the folks who like getting ripped off so much, they think anyone who doesn't like it should move to China.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

If you think that's sick, you should research live casino rakes, make sure to factor in tokes, gas, food etc... Keep a bucket nearby because you'll most likely vomit.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
I At the lower limit tables (2-4 and 1-2), it is almost impossible to make money due to the rake. Do any of you realize that?



[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I will bet a decent player, with two monitors, could make $30 an hour at 2/4, and a good player could make close to $50. Half that, of course, for 1/2; and half that, of course, with only one high res. monitor.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Not if he's not winning a good bit. The question is what is his MGR.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I At the lower limit tables (2-4 and 1-2), it is almost impossible to make money due to the rake. Do any of you realize that?



[/ QUOTE ]



Really? I will bet a decent player, with two monitors, could make $30 an hour at 2/4, and a good player could make close to $50. Half that, of course, for 1/2; and half that, of course, with only one high res. monitor.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that does not include bonus or rakeback. So, if you can't make money online at 1/2 and 2/4, you have much bigger problems to worry about than the rake you are paying.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Thank you very much LinusKS!! You actually understand my frustration with these excessive rake fees! The fact that they are hidden fees makes people more accepting of them.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you very much LinusKS!! You actually understand my frustration with these excessive rake fees! The fact that they are hidden fees makes people more accepting of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your really not getting the point. Everyone here sees these fees, and everyone knows how much they are paying. But do we care? No, not really. The money we pay in rake, makes sure we have a site to play at, and makes sure they offer tons of reload bonuses, advertisments, and promotions, to keep all the new little fishies coming in for us to make even more off of.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
You realize live casinos charge MUCH more in rake per hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no they don't. Party drops $3 per hand. In my area, there are dozens of casino/ cardrooms and I don't think a single one drops more $3, and many of them have a $2 rake.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

I've heard of $4 rake being pulled at $3/6 games..

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Welcome to the reality of poker. Rake has been around for a long time and it will be around for a lot longer. Thanks to PT many players are for the first time realizing exactly how much rake is paid.

I personally don't think it's too high, the site is providing me with a table and hosting the game. The rake is used to attract more players which in theory I should be able to make money off of.

Your comment about not being able to beat 1/2 and 2/4 is ridiculous.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Don't worry, we all realize you are an idiot. If I can make money at .25/.50 and .50/1 while you can't at 5/10 you are a complete moron. You do realize the rake paid is part of the pots you have won? The way you make money is to win more $$ in pots than you pay in blinds and rake. Unless you are playing either a tight weak or psychos-r-us style this isn't a problem. As of right now, about 4 months after getting "serious" about it, I have about $25 of "my" money left online in various poker sites. I'm bankrolled to 200BB or better on 3 sites. You figure it out.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
Um, no they don't. Party drops $3 per hand. In my area, there are dozens of casino/ cardrooms and I don't think a single one drops more $3, and many of them have a $2 rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Admittedly I've only played at 2 casinos, and I believe they both charged 10% up to $5 below 10/20. I think it was a time charge above that.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Why are you still posting?

"Hopeful,

I agree that these replys are ridiculous and I am ceasing to speak on the matter any further. "

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Um, no they don't. Party drops $3 per hand. In my area, there are dozens of casino/ cardrooms and I don't think a single one drops more $3, and many of them have a $2 rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Admittedly I've only played at 2 casinos, and I believe they both charged 10% up to $5 below 10/20. I think it was a time charge above that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that's unreasonable. It's still not like this is the norm amonst all casinos. I mainly play online now, but when I used to mainly play live, the two main games I played were a 15/30 with a $2 rake and no jackpot drop and a $20/40 with a $3 rake and $1 jackpot drop. The game I played before moving on to those was a 10/20 with a $2 rake and $1 jackpot. These were all at different cardrooms. These rakes are not worse than online.

Some people are saying that you should count all of your expenses like gas to the cardroom, but I think that is irrelevant when we are discussing how much the house charges you to play. Further, that doesn't need to be expensive for everyone either. When I lived on the east coast, I would take a bus to the casino and you were given match play coupons and a coupon for the buffet that came out to be worth more than the cost of the bus ticket, so that was actually a negative expense (the casino wants you to go there). Even if you count gas, there are expenses for playing online too (hardrware, software, internet access).

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party uses that rake to advertise and bring in new players for you to win money from. If they didn't collect the rake you would have to put together your own games which would cost you a lot of time and money.


[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't all go into player promotions and advertiseing. I'm sure Mr Dikshit uses some of that money to get out laid.

Stu

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Last time I went to AC (1990ish) after gas (someone else's car, gas, and tolls - they didn't like to drive in AC) the hotel was comped, the buffet was $5 all you can eat steak and lobster (if you could eat with the casino noise piped into the buffet). Wasn't playing poker so I have no idea as to the rake, but, I came out way ahead.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am saying there is a reason PartyPoker is going public for 4-8 billion dollars and it aint because they are charging an affordable rake! At the lower limit tables (2-4 and 1-2), it is almost impossible to make money due to the rake. Do any of you realize that?

Why do you think these sites can offer such bonuses? They will recoup the bonus in a few days and you will end up paying them many times over!

Even the tourney games. Why is it that a $50 tourney has a $5 fee and a $30 tourney cost $3?? They both cost the site the same amount of money to manage operationally!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm playing 15/30 after 1.3 years of beating the rake (without rakeback until recently) at .5/1, 1/2, 2/4, and 3/6.

But more importantly, this thread rules.

EDIT: It also occurred to me that you might not be aware that every retail establishment charges you slightly more than they paid for their goods. We should put a stop to that.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious if any of you have done the math and found out what you paid in rake fees last month??

[/ QUOTE ]

If by "math," you mean opening pokertracker, then yes, I do the math almost every day.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]
At the lower limit tables (2-4 and 1-2), it is almost impossible to make money due to the rake. Do any of you realize that?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because you are dead wrong. THe rake is high, but the low limit games are very beatable despite this.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ...... *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Wyers

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

[ QUOTE ]

EDIT: It also occurred to me that you might not be aware that every retail establishment charges you slightly more than they paid for their goods. We should put a stop to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those greedy bastids! Picket 'em all! Make/grow/raise our own goods.

Re: Don\'t be fooled!! The Rake is ......
 

Yes, I understand it. The only "easy" way to track it is from pots won. Unless you do something so simple as money started session and money ended session which is greater? Then you don't care because you've determined if you have beat the rake or not quickly, easily, and relatively accurately.

By any method of calculation (true total, pot total, MGR) it is way more than possible to beat the rake at even .25/.50.