ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Before you lose your whole roll playing online poker I just wanted to tell you to stick to live game play. Online poker is rigged 100% & if you continue to play you will lose all of your money. I am a professinal poker player trying to get the word out. I make a living playing live games & consistently dominate these games. After losing constantly online I decided to do some studies & research these randomness of the cards & came to the 100% conclusion that they are set against you. I have several friends that play professionally & know many more that do & have never known anyone that could beat the online game consistently. If youre winning now its only because the site has you in win mode & soon you will hit distribution mode. New accounts & poorer players are givin better flops to keep tables full so the sharks wont take all their money, this keeps tables full & rake up. They also have site shills that play for site to take your roll. I learned the hard way. I hope to spread the word. These sites are mafia run & locate offshores so they are not regulated. Oh & ive heard all the #$%^ about why they wouldnt rig because its not in their interest. These are nieve gullables or paid site shills. The rake is no competition for taking your whole bankroll. Those who dont believe in conspiracy are fair game for those who conspire. The @#%% with the illuminati & all those work for them.
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Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

funny guy. show me your 100% proof and i will believe you if it holds up. Until then, calm down and stop being so melodramatic.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

if you suck, you suck. i have a few friends who cant beat online but do win live, and its because live players suck more in general, at least in the LA area.... the only site i would even consider possibly rigged is pacific... a friend of mine turned his last $3 into $3600, getting a lot of crazy hands... and i think it was more likely a coincidence

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Jackpot Jay - is that you?

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Well, I'm convinced! Case Closed!!

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
If youre winning now its only because the site has you in win mode & soon you will hit distribution mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I feel myself slipping into distribution mode, I set up a new account and get back into win mode.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
nieve gullables

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont they have a new album coming out soon?

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Thanks for sharing.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Well i dont really belive u but plz show us some proof for ur claims. I really think that u and ur friends maybe just have a long loosing streak or u just cant beat the agressive onlinegames. in time u will learn.
Do like i do when im loosing money. GET DRUNK and be back playing the next day [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Since several of my friends make a nice living playing online, I have extreme doubts about your conclusion.

I think you are rationalizing because you don't win online. There are a large number of reasons that winning B&M players don't win online. Some of them are discussed in my article on "Paranoia." You can read it at cardplayer.com.

I am sure there are others that I have not considered.

But the conclusion that online is 100% rigger is not justified without VERY SOLID evidence, and you have not presented ANY evidence.

Al

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nieve gullables

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont they have a new album coming out soon?

[/ QUOTE ]

Think he was talking about the actress, Nieve Campbell.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
The @#%% with the illuminati & all those work for them.
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[/ QUOTE ]

I think this tells you everything you need to know about this poster (Trilateral Commission, anyone?). My bet? Hoax.

But while we're on the subject . . .
One important difference between B&M & online cardrooms is that every single hand played online is PUBLIC. All those millions of hands (or is it billions, Carl?) can be downloaded into databases and analyzed 9 ways to Sunday.
A quick check of this site shows there are quite a number of datageeks doing just that all the time.

Do you think maybe, if a major site were rigged, somebody would have noticed by now? Do you think they might like to get on Primetime Live with their findings with an hour-long special? How about someone working for a competing site? Mightn't they have a rooting interest?

Like the Amazing Randi, waiting by the phone for someone to take him up on his decades-old $1 million offer to anyone who could present proof of the existence of ESP, we're all still waiting.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Al, you're a better man than me. I'm just not able to respond to that post without making fun of the poster.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some of them are discussed in my article on "Paranoia."

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

This poster is wrong, and so are you about Randi. James Randi is an idiot, several people have offered to take him on over the so-called offer for ESP but he has the habit of setting impossible-to-meet conditions (so I have heard). If you want proof of the existence of ESP speak to the Military regarding their "remote viewing" experiments (both in the USA and Soviet Union) or maybe just take a look at the results produced by the internationally respected PEAR Lab. at Princeton University (Princeton Engineering Anonmalies Research Laboratory). They have a website and some of the research and background is published in their book "Margins of Reality".

It is not a question of whether ESP exists or not, it exists and demonstrably so. The problem is (i) providing some kind of mechanism to explain it, which is necessary for any theory to have credence and (ii) finding out the practical uses and limitations.

Those who belong to the "there is no evidence" are basically the same as Randi "we refuse to listen, we refuse to see, so we refute (as we have neither seen or heard)". There is a huge and growing body of credible evidence if you would only bother to look (which you clearly have not). Sure there are any number of crackpots, but there are also a growing number of respected physicists and psychologist, surgeons etc. that now accept its existence both from experimental data and the substantial quantity of anecdotal and experiential evidence. If you refuse to believe it, you are a fool, the evidence is overwhelming. Oh well, I hope your flat-earth membership goes though ok...

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

I have proof of ESP. Here it is: this thread will continue much longer than is necessary.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

The first problem with your argument is you say that there are sharks. If the cards are rigged then there can be no sharks to take your money. Only the casino takes your money. And the rake is much greater than your roll to them. If you had pokertracker and analyzed your rake vs winnings after a while at a low to mid limit you would see that while you may make a killing on your pley, the casino still makes more.

If the games arent beatable, why for two years have I won more than 500 a month playing in my spare time.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Someone listens to Art Bell too much. Are there Shadow People too?

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Beat into submission by the thump-thump-thump sound of them black helicopters, no doubt.

Wrong Forum Person
 

You belong in the Zoo. Begone, parasite.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

I've heard all the money made by NASA selling photo-rights for the faked Apollo moon missions is being used to set-up poker sites with the sole purpose of funding another fake mission to Mars. Of course this is only idle hearsay and I'd be very happy to see some EVIDENCE.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
This poster is wrong, and so are you about Randi. James Randi is an idiot, several people have offered to take him on over the so-called offer for ESP but he has the habit of setting impossible-to-meet conditions (so I have heard). If you want proof of the existence of ESP speak to the Military regarding their "remote viewing" experiments (both in the USA and Soviet Union) or maybe just take a look at the results produced by the internationally respected PEAR Lab. at Princeton University (Princeton Engineering Anonmalies Research Laboratory). They have a website and some of the research and background is published in their book "Margins of Reality".

It is not a question of whether ESP exists or not, it exists and demonstrably so. The problem is (i) providing some kind of mechanism to explain it, which is necessary for any theory to have credence and (ii) finding out the practical uses and limitations.

Those who belong to the "there is no evidence" are basically the same as Randi "we refuse to listen, we refuse to see, so we refute (as we have neither seen or heard)". There is a huge and growing body of credible evidence if you would only bother to look (which you clearly have not). Sure there are any number of crackpots, but there are also a growing number of respected physicists and psychologist, surgeons etc. that now accept its existence both from experimental data and the substantial quantity of anecdotal and experiential evidence. If you refuse to believe it, you are a fool, the evidence is overwhelming. Oh well, I hope your flat-earth membership goes though ok...

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong my friend - I know James Randi and he is a genius. It is always the frauds and fakers who claim his testing methods are unfair - because it prevents them from cheating. His methods are extremely fair and scientific.

As to your claim of internationally respected PEAR Lab. at Princeton University (Princeton Engineering Anonmalies Research Laboratory). I did a google on it and not one reference came up. How respected is it you Bozo????

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the link. However, are you aware of any respected scientific organizations who have commented on their work or duplicated any of their claims in another lab?

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

I, too, know Randi and can vouch for the fact that his offer is legitimate. Alas, the claimants aren't.

As a former psychology professor and the author of a book on the subject, I have spent much time researching the issue of ESP and psychic claims.

I know of many people who claim that ESP is a demonstrable fact. Unfortunately, I know of no one who has ever demonstrated it.

It is possible, I suppose, that psi forces may exist in some non-utilitarian fashion. Of course, that has never been proven, but, who knows...

What we see on the stage, however, is never psychic, it is always magic. If ESP exists it certainly does not exist in any way that would permit some performer to call upon it at show time. Kreskin, John Edwards, Uri Geller, and their ilk are, of course, magicians.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Funny how everyone jumps on such an obvious provocation/hoax.

But it is worth remembering that there is a big difference between "online poker is generally legitimate" and "every online poker site is legitimate". Human greed and folly being what it is, the day will surely come when some online poker room is caught rigging the RNG for fraudulent purposes.

Not to name any names, but I might think twice about a site that 1) clearly seems to think winning players are a business liability and 2) makes it difficult or impossible to assemble a statistically significant number of hand histories, thereby preventing any meaningful analysis from being done. If someone were corrupt that's exactly what I would expect to see.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Would you provide the website address, please?

Thank you.

Regards,

Al

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

A moment ago I asked him for the website address. I am one of the people who says, "There is no evidence."

If he or they have evidence, I want to see it.

Until I see it, I will repeat my earlier position, "ESP is nonsense."

If I see scientifically credible evidence, I will gladly change my mind, but the burden of proof is unquestionably on those who claim that ESP exists.

As for the point about "impossible to meet conditions," I know almost nothing about Randi, nor do I take him seriously. I do know that many people without training in the sciences regard STANDARD scientific controls such as large, representative samples and double blinds as "impossible to meet." But every competent scientist knows that these conditions exist for a reason: To prevent "Voodoo science" from influencing people's decisions.

The book by that title is well worth reading. It briefly mentions ESP, but spends a lot of time on other scientific frauds such as cold fusion and various other "solutions" to our energy problems.

Regards,

Al

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

The main problem with this post is the complete absence of any UN involvement reference. This leads me to believe the poster is just part of the whole New World Order conspiracy using the Illumanati as their favorite smokescreen. This concentrates the public's focus on the banking industry and away from the global-political power structure using online poker to subsidize terrorist actions such as the Oklahoma City, the attempted assassination of Randy Weaver, the successful assassinations of Lincoln, the Kennedys, and the sinking of the Titanic (by a nascent UN's (not outwardly known) black submarine). Ladies and Gentleman BEWARE!

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

The stubborn skeptic wants more than anything to be correct. His search for "truth" will always be insincere because its not truth he searches for, but self-confirmation. His ego is his greatest undoing. It is those that defy skepticism with an almost blind faith that will make true progress toward truth. A hint of skepticism can keep one grounded in reality but lack of open-mindedness can keep one from ever discovering truth.

That being said, the original post is nonsense and should be ignored. Focus, instead, on the interesting questions that have been raised by repliers. Some good stuff can be gleaned from this thread.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Here's the thing.

When someone posts such as the thread starter, they might just as well be planted by someone seeking to hide impropriety because the responses are pretty easily predicted.

The problem is; most big time financial folks understand the concept of shearing sheep as well as the power of large numbers of small transactions. Once big money comes along in any endeavor, there will be computer simulations put together to determine methods for increasing the numbers.

I recall a story about vegas casinos a while back. The idea was to create viable defenses against card counters. One study was prepared that suggested if multiple decks were put into the shoe at the beginning of the day with the cards configured AthruK KthruA AthruK KthruA, the resulting clumping of big card/small card groups would persist through many shuffles. Now, I don't know if its true, but I do know that that is how a standard deck of Kem cards comes now. I also know that the casinos no longer pay out 5 card charlies which theoretically would not be more prevalent in a multiple deck situation.

For the online poker rooms, I am certain with the data they have, they can easily determine the percentages of winners/losers at each level. Further, they can easily shape the data to determine if weak players are being chased too quickly.

So, my question is: Why wouldn't an online cardroom find algorithms that throw exceedingly small disadvantages at better players from time to time in order to prolong both their play as well as the fish in the tank.

For my part, I am up significantly online. Most of this has come from a number of large tourney cashes. In the 15/30 Party game, I am up slightly after 50k hands. Recently in vegas, I was playing with math guy; Paul Magriel and he scoffed at the notion of 25k hands not being enough to determine whether you are a winning player, yet all you need to do is troll the High limit forum and you see horror stories galore of 3-400BB downswings with variance being the biggest challenge to long term success.

The additional component to this is the pro player typically runs a minimum of 3 tables and a lot of folks are doing many more than that. This creates an effect where a lot of raked hands are generated, but it absolutely HAS to put real pressure on the fishing. With the current upsurge in popularity, there is obviously a greater influx and an evergrowing pool of players, but it isn't infinite and somebody looking to; say take a gaming site public would want to grow numbers incrementally and keep them growing quarter over quarter.

Now, to dispute the above, you might say look at the hand histories. And sure enough, over 50k hands I have a near perfect distribution of starting hands. But imagine a sophisticated shuffle that could distribute premium holdings with a slightly unfavorable position. Again, don't think "All AA would be given to the player UTG". Think more that AA is dealt on average the same amount in any position, then you skew the shuffle slightly to MP and early position over a small number of these hands. A computer simulation could easily show the winning percentage changes based on such movement. And because we aren't talking big changes, it probably would not look suspicious unless you could compare multiple player databases; something not likely to occur ;-) Remember, this is all taking place on essentially large database software so creating such models would be trivially easy. There is an interesting thread in the high limit forum about a guy with what are essentially losing player stats, yet he has crushed the game over a huge number of hands. Is he the one in a million?

In reality, Rake back programs may simply be the wink from the company to professional player as to what is occurring. They don't really want to kill the pro, they simply want to manage the resource much as your local Fish and Game department does.

Bottom line; things are seldom as they appear on this planet and if there is an extra dollar to be raked, online poker sites, drug and oil companies or nations will find a way to do so. I have also posted about more sophisticated collusion issues that also fight the general consensus.

Time to go make up some new tinfoil hats for the rest of the week's play. Good luck.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Randi is a debunker, in the same mold as Houdini was a debunker of mediums in the 1920's. A magician that exposes frauds that use magic tricks to promote so called psychic powers to bilk people out of money etc. He is not a formal scientist, but he is useful in that he has exposed many frauds and quacks. He is associated with an organization called CSICOP that publishes The Skeptical Inquirer. A useful magazine, if not very well known.

They have a website: CSICOP

-Zeno

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

I think you are right. If I stop playing for a week or so, I suddenly get great hands for the first few times I return.I wonder if others have noticed this.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
Randi is a debunker, in the same mold as Houdini was a debunker of mediums in the 1920's. A magician that exposes frauds that use magic tricks to promote so called psychic powers to bilk people out of money etc. He is not a formal scientist, but he is useful in that he has exposed many frauds and quacks. He is associated with an organization called CSICOP that publishes The Skeptical Inquirer. A useful magazine, if not very well known.
-Zeno

[/ QUOTE ]
They have a website: CSICOP

Some of the founding members of CSICOP included scientists, academics, and science writers such as Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, Philip Klass, Paul Kurtz, Ray Hyman, James Randi, Martin Gardner, Sidney Hook, and others. A list of CSICOP fellows is published in every issue of Skeptical Inquirer magazine.

You might also try this link - http://www.randi.org/

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Which online rooms are you talking about specifically?

As in any industry, I am sure there are some online poker rooms that don't play entirely by the rules in the name of making a higher short-term profit.

The odds of foul-play increase when you take into account the amazing number of online rooms, and that the industry has been able to position itself to be relatively free from regulation.

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

Great post faustusmedia. Finally some brains in one of these posts. I became suspicious a while back when it seemed the cards could be good for awhile and suddenly bad. More swings than any I have seen in a live game. The thing is if you try to find out how the RNG is tested and verified while in use and safegaurded from tampering you can find out nothing. I have emailed BMM, Iglobal, and other verification sites and not one returned my email. If they are completely honest and using great methods to insure that the deals are honest why is it you get smoke and mirrors when you try to find out the methods? If you go to the web sites of these verification firms you get a run around. At the Poker web sites where you play you get a hazy picture and run around. If this is being done fairly and honestly why not show the exact method of testing, verification, and tamper proofing of the RNG in live use play? They should be screaming this from the roof. It should be in every banner add and a complete page dedicated to it on the sites where you play. Why don't they want the us to know? Has anyone else tried to dig out this information?

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If youre winning now its only because the site has you in win mode & soon you will hit distribution mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I feel myself slipping into distribution mode, I set up a new account and get back into win mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

First let me say that I have been a winning player at the lower limits for the past 30K hands. I have basically grinded my way from .01/.02 to 1/2. I just hit my first 150BB losing streak and it seems like there is no end in sight.

I have to say that the idea that the sites rig the dealing is absolutely rediculous. For several reasons:

First of all there arent that many sharks. According to another post I read a while back, only about 10-15% of the players in any player pool are long time winners. The rest of the pool consists of fish that exchange their money back and forth while the sites eat them up with the rake.

Second of all the sharks arent actually taking that much money from the fish. Lets assume that out of 100 players 15 are averaging 1BB/hr for 15BB/hr from the fish. That is a cost of about .175BB/hr charged to each fish. At 1/2 this means that the average fish will get 285 hrs of play out $100. I see no reason why the card site would risk the millions of dollars they are making just to increase this to 300+hr/$100. How much more can they possibly make? There are ppl tracking a rediculous amount of hands, a site will get discovered.

Third, they dont need to do anything to ensure that the fish stick around. People love to gamble! I dont understand it much, but ppl love to play craps/roulette/lottos and will gladly throw their money away, and then come back and do it again!

what the conspiray theorists fail to realise is that its not the sites that are rigged, its the game. Texas holdem probably has the highest amount of luck involved out of any form of poker (from what I've read at least, I dont play anything else). It also has a very high degree of skill, its pure brilliance. Why do you think its the most popular form of poker? It keeps the fish around. Love it for what it is [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED
 

I make shittons of money playing online.

I do not know any mafia members or am connected to them in any way.

rake from 1000's of people >> taking one person's bankroll and giving it to a shill and then getting caught and going out of business

maybe you just suck

posts like this make me laugh at the stupidity of some people, it's sad to see that they're making their way into 2+2 however.

oh yeah, and your friends suck too.

just cuz you can beat the 3-6 or 5-10 at commerce or whatever fish pond you play at doesn't mean you're a good player who can play the same limits online and make money.

wanna play heads up sometime?

go read a f-ing book, learn some math, and then come back and post something meaningfull

Re: STOCKMAN EXPOSED!!!
 

Yeah, this genius is signing up for accounts on forums all over the net and putting up the exact same bullxxxx post. see

http://www.pokerforums.org/showthread.php?t=3246
"stockman27
Fish Food Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2


ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before you lose your whole roll playing online poker I just wanted to tell you to stick to live game play. Online poker is rigged 100% & if you continue to play you will lose all of your money. I am a professinal poker player trying to get the word out. I make a living playing live games & consistently dominate these games. After losing constantly online I decided to do some studies & research these randomness of the cards & came to the 100% conclusion that they are set against you. I have several friends that play professionally & know many more that do & have never known anyone that could beat the online game consistently. If youre winning now its only because the site has you in win mode & soon you will hit distribution mode. New accounts & poorer players are givin better flops to keep tables full so the sharks wont take all their money, this keeps tables full & rake up. They also have site shills that play for site to take your roll. I learned the hard way. I hope to spread the word. These sites are mafia run & locate offshores so they are not regulated. Oh & ive heard all the #$%^ about why they wouldnt rig because its not in their interest. These are nieve gullables or paid site shills. The rake is no competition for taking your whole bankroll. Those who dont believe in conspiracy are fair game for those who conspire. The @#%% with the illuminati & all those work for them.
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Don't act like a nieve gullable; ignore this guy.