1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

No reads on players - had only been at table for about 10 hands.

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (15 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls, SB calls. (I actually meant to cap here)

Turn: (12.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (24.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 30.50 BB

Comments?

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

i'd have just called the 3-bet on the turn and maybe folded to SB c/r on the river, but the pot is huge....

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

I wouldn't cap the flop, and I'd call down the turn and river. This kind of crazy aggression from an unknown will often mean he flopped a set.

Clearly he's not afraid of you.

Edit: I didn't even see SB's C/R. That means he's got a flush about 100% of the time.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

Not a bad hand, top two pair is pretty sweet. I think you're aggressive enough, though i'd probably just call the turn 3 bet. I'd be losing confidence during the turn betting, figuring maybe a set.

So what'd they turn over the set or the flush?

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

Thanks for the response. What is the reasoning behind that?

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

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So what'd they turn over the set or the flush?

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SB with an AhQh flush. BB didn't show.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

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Edit: I didn't even see SB's C/R. That means he's got a flush about 100% of the time.

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I knew it as soon as I saw the check raise, but for 30BB I couldn't fold even with a .000000001% chance.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

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Edit: I didn't even see SB's C/R. That means he's got a flush about 100% of the time.

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I knew it as soon as I saw the check raise, but for 30BB I couldn't fold even with a .000000001% chance.

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Why didn't BB re-raise w/ the nuts?? Or did you mix up which had what? Was it SB w/ the AQ flush? Holy hell, now I'm just confused.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

Yeah my bad, I edited the results, SB won with flush, not BB.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

Cap the flop, not the turn.

Calling SB's river c/r is fine, but I expect to lose.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

First off, I probably would've capped the flop here because you have top 2, and are in position. We also will have the best hand here more than our share of the time.
Then if we get bet into again on the turn we should just call down (having no reads), only expecting to take down the pot against a very LAG player overplaying KQ or something.
Now, on the turn I think the cap was too strong, because BB has shown so much strength, the only time he didn't raise was preflop when he called 2 cold. Either BB flopped a set or he is just nuts and you can take advantage in future hands.
As far a SB goes, the only hand he could logically 3 bet here and then call flop and turn facing 2 bets at a time (then raise the river) would be AQ of hearts (possibly ATh), where he has 12 outs to the nuts if the board doesn't pair.

However, it still might be profitable to call the river here, because you're getting almost 30:1 and sometimes your opponents aren't thinking very clear. But, your hand is almost never good here.

Hope this helps

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

Looks okay except you got a little out of line on the turn. I would have just called the 3-bet from an unknown on the turn. River was shitty but you're not folding with that giant pot.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

what am I missing? it's party, you converted the hand history - BB called the river so you know his cards even if he didn't show. Is there some reason I'm not aware of for not saying?

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

I think I go into call down mode on the turn. Did you notice that SB keeps calling all the raises...never puts in his own. And he 3-bet preflop. In my experience, many players will only 3-bet with a made hand, so I think you are looking at AA and KK. If he is a thinking player, he would raise the flop himself with AA. I think he has KK and is allowing you and BB to push the action. Your two pair is strong, but I think beaten by a couple of sets. Call the turn, hope SB doesnt raise it. Call the river, also hope it isnt raised. If it is, perhaps you have to make a good laydown here. This is way too much action for TPTK and two pair should be beaten by this action.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

Does no one ever cap this preflop? 5 ways I think it could easily be +EV. Opponents fold way too often in huge pots, in big pots you want to do everything you can to win, not try to save bets. Capping will certainly help you win occasionally and only costs you 1SB when you lose. In addition, you will win this plenty of times and end up making money on the additional preflop money so at most it costs you a fraction of a bet to cap, it increases your chances of winning without a showdown (even though that is a remote event it certainly happens occasionally even in huge pots), and it takes advantage of your opponents mistake of folding too easily and playing too passively in massive pots. What do you guys say?

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

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what am I missing? it's party, you converted the hand history - BB called the river so you know his cards even if he didn't show. Is there some reason I'm not aware of for not saying?

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I just started playing on Party, How do I find out someone's cards if they didn't show? I just copied and pasted the hand history from the window that pops up when you click the hyperlink for "Last Game xxxxxxxx" into Bison's converter.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does no one ever cap this preflop? 5 ways I think it could easily be +EV. <font color="blue">Opponents fold way too often in huge pots, in big pots you want to do everything you can to win, not try to save bets</font>. Capping will certainly help you win occasionally and only costs you 1SB when you lose. In addition, you will win this plenty of times and end up making money on the additional preflop money so at most it costs you a fraction of a bet to cap, it increases your chances of winning without a showdown (even though that is a remote event it certainly happens occasionally even in huge pots), and it takes advantage of your opponents mistake of folding too easily and playing too passively in massive pots. What do you guys say?

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bolded section: interesting idea. i don't because a 3-bet from SB with limpers in UTG isn't some crappy holding (barring reads). i'd rather wait to see what the flop brings and i have great position to raise then.

<font color="blue"> Blue section: </font> really? people fold more in big pots? that's not my experience. people seem to stick around longer in big pots (which isn't a bad thing either if we get our flush).

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

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I just started playing on Party, How do I find out someone's cards if they didn't show?

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Click the hand # at the top right of the screen.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does no one ever cap this preflop? 5 ways I think it could easily be +EV. <font color="blue">Opponents fold way too often in huge pots, in big pots you want to do everything you can to win, not try to save bets</font>. Capping will certainly help you win occasionally and only costs you 1SB when you lose. In addition, you will win this plenty of times and end up making money on the additional preflop money so at most it costs you a fraction of a bet to cap, it increases your chances of winning without a showdown (even though that is a remote event it certainly happens occasionally even in huge pots), and it takes advantage of your opponents mistake of folding too easily and playing too passively in massive pots. What do you guys say?

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bolded section: interesting idea. i don't because a 3-bet from SB with limpers in UTG isn't some crappy holding (barring reads). i'd rather wait to see what the flop brings and i have great position to raise then.

<font color="blue"> Blue section: </font> really? people fold more in big pots? that's not my experience. people seem to stick around longer in big pots (which isn't a bad thing either if we get our flush).

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I don't think he was saying that they fold more often. I think he was implying that people fold too often, which they do, but they fold less often in bigger pots (still a lot though).

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

I would have capped the flop here.
If BB then continues to bet I would call down.

I put him on 44 and SB on a flush.

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

second or third bottom line in the history will say

BB doesn't show [ Ad, Ac ] a pair of aces

Re: 1st Hand Post - All comments welcome
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does no one ever cap this preflop? 5 ways I think it could easily be +EV. <font color="blue">Opponents fold way too often in huge pots, in big pots you want to do everything you can to win, not try to save bets</font>. Capping will certainly help you win occasionally and only costs you 1SB when you lose. In addition, you will win this plenty of times and end up making money on the additional preflop money so at most it costs you a fraction of a bet to cap, it increases your chances of winning without a showdown (even though that is a remote event it certainly happens occasionally even in huge pots), and it takes advantage of your opponents mistake of folding too easily and playing too passively in massive pots. What do you guys say?

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bolded section: interesting idea. i don't because a 3-bet from SB with limpers in UTG isn't some crappy holding (barring reads). i'd rather wait to see what the flop brings and i have great position to raise then.

<font color="blue"> Blue section: </font> really? people fold more in big pots? that's not my experience. people seem to stick around longer in big pots (which isn't a bad thing either if we get our flush).

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I don't think he was saying that they fold more often. I think he was implying that people fold too often, which they do, but they fold less often in bigger pots (still a lot though).

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Yes. I didn't mean that they fold more often in big pots than they do in small pots. But I find that relative to optimal they fold too little in small pots and too much in big pots. So when I have a hand like KJs which plays well in a big pot, I like to have initiative because it gives me more ways to win and it doesn't cost me very much here to get a bit more of it.

So I'm hearing "No, we never cap here. Yes, we think it is an interesting idea and might try it at some point." Yes?