is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

dude is 17/12/2.5 after 31 hands

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

Re: is this good or not good?
 

i think in the long run this is -ev.

all you have on him is stats which say nothing about how he treats a turn C/R. you might push him off A high here sometimes but if he's got this far he will most likely see the river.

i just check/call turn.

Re: is this good or not good?
 

i dont like this at all unless you have seen villain fold to turn raises. he could easily be the type of player to call you down with ace high here.

don't spew chips like this till you have more info on the player. i prob just fold the turn for fear of a made hand or reverse implied odds.

Re: is this good or not good?
 

TStoneMBD,

Ugh...I don't like the turn semibluff checkraise at all. For me to make this play I have to feel confident button will fold a x% of the time and I don't see that happening here. Against a player this tight I check-call the turn and fold the river unimproved. Pre-flop and flop look good.

___1___

Re: is this good or not good?
 

I like the PF 3-bet.

Using the given stats as a read, flop action seems fine. I would check/fold on the turn. Against a tight passive, then the c/r - bluff may induce a fold, but this guy seems more likely to 3-bet you. Your K should not be good against this opponent in this situation. Against a Loose-aggressive, c/r since you are likely to be ahead and he will call.

I'm not an expert at this level yet, so this is only an opinion.

Re: is this good or not good?
 

well i got lucky and the guy folded, but that doesnt mean the play is right though.

Re: is this good or not good?
 

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i prob just fold the turn for fear of a made hand or reverse implied odds.

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Folding this turn is really bad.

Re: is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

I would say it's neither...

Re: is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

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I would say it's neither...

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exactly what I was thinking

Re: is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
I would say it's neither...

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exactly what I was thinking

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Me too actually.

Re: is this good or not good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think in the long run this is -ev.

all you have on him is stats which say nothing about how he treats a turn C/R. you might push him off A high here sometimes but if he's got this far he will most likely see the river.

i just check/call turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't your outs pretty tainted for check-calling here? Not to mention that you're only getting 6.5:1..

Re: is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

I don't like it. With a board of 79TX, any card 7 or higher either pairs the board, creates nice straight possiblities (8 &amp; J) or is an overcard. This means that, even ignoring his betting actions, there are few playable hands that don't mesh with this board. Even if he holds one (e.g., A5s), it could potentially be suited in spades, especially since none of the big spades are accounted for. If we add to that what his betting says about his hand, I think you are almost never buying the pot on the turn, and very rarely taking it with a followhthrough bet on the river.

Re: is this good or not good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think in the long run this is -ev.

all you have on him is stats which say nothing about how he treats a turn C/R. you might push him off A high here sometimes but if he's got this far he will most likely see the river.

i just check/call turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't your outs pretty tainted for check-calling here? Not to mention that you're only getting 6.5:1..

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would your outs be tainted?

Re: is this good or not good?
 

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Aren't your outs pretty tainted for check-calling here? Not to mention that you're only getting 6.5:1..

[/ QUOTE ]

If all our outs are clean, we only need 3.6:1 pot odds(ignoring implied odds). I think we have about 8 outs here(38:8), so the pot is more than big enough to justify calling another bet.

Re: is this good or not good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Aren't your outs pretty tainted for check-calling here? Not to mention that you're only getting 6.5:1..

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If all our outs are clean, we only need 3.6:1 pot odds(ignoring implied odds). I think we have about 8 outs here(38:8), so the pot is more than big enough to justify calling another bet.

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I should just stop posting since you always say what I was going to say better than I would have said it [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: is this good or not good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Aren't your outs pretty tainted for check-calling here? Not to mention that you're only getting 6.5:1..

[/ QUOTE ]

If all our outs are clean, we only need 3.6:1 pot odds(ignoring implied odds). I think we have about 8 outs here(38:8), so the pot is more than big enough to justify calling another bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally. Good post. I might consider folding the turn, if he capped me preflop.

Don't forget that half of your clean outs, 4 outs to the nuts will definately yield some implied odds here.

I see that the vast majority of the time you'll have 7 clean outs here, even if he has you reverse dominated or dominated with pretty much any hand. I can't put villian on an overpair here or a set so i make a super easy call.

Re: is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

I dont like. Whatever he has to raise you on the flop with, he is going to call the turn raise with. So for this to work, you have to bet the river. And thats a lot of chips to spew against someone you have nothing on but a measly 30 hand PT stat read.
long run, I see it being -EV

Just call the turn

Re: is this good or not good?
 

Good post, I have a question though.

if you hit your K or Q on the river is it a ckeck/call, bet/call raise or some other play?

Thanks, I feel I have trouble on rivers where my hand might be dominated (assuming button has a possible AQ or AK).

Re: is this good or not good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think in the long run this is -ev.

all you have on him is stats which say nothing about how he treats a turn C/R. you might push him off A high here sometimes but if he's got this far he will most likely see the river.

i just check/call turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't your outs pretty tainted for check-calling here? Not to mention that you're only getting 6.5:1..

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff said it best, but I'd also like to add that we might get a free showdown here and win with KQ high -- villian could be pushing QJ or KJ like this and would check the river through after we call the turn.

Re: is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

if you have a read on him folding too much i like it. against a calling station like me it's chipspewing.

Re: is this good or very not good? (aka very very not good)
 

posting blind.

Dammit, I think cr bluffs and fancy plays are my least favorite kind of posts these days.

Yes it works sometimes. But mostly I think you are wasting 50 hands worth of effort.

Krishan

Re: is this good or not good?
 

if I hit a K or Q I would bet out