Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

Last night i played a live $220 tourney. I got aces cracked (3 rd tournament in a row)..

Set up:

Last hand of the 1st round. I have just won the last 4 or 6 hands. Built my chip stack up from the starting 800 to about 2K give or take. Blinds are currengly 5/15.

I am sitting on the button with AA. Everyone folds to me I raise to 60 (4x bb). BB who has 400 or so more than me puts me all in. I call. He shows JJ to my AA. However out comes the J. I'm out in the first 30 minutes.

I replayed this in my head and thought i would have done the same thing with KK and AKs.

My thoughts in calling were:

a.) I have AA can't start any better.
b.) I can serverly cripple a player.
c.) I will be sitting in good chip position early.

Would anyone have folded AA? Aren't you an 9-1 favorite or better? I can't remember the exact odds.

I get 1 tourney a month and always get knocked out showing the best hand either after flop (AA with rags or AK pairing K no A on the bd).. I am hoping that eventually these plays start showing +EV. I have only played 4 live tourneys so maybe not enough for +EV yet?

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

bad beat post said what?

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

here comes the fold AA police.


no, you're not a 9-1 favorite, you're 4-1 i believe.


my chips beat his in the pot if he overplays jacks that fast.

tough break.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Would anyone have folded AA? Aren't you an 9-1 favorite or better? I can't remember the exact odds.

I get 1 tourney a month and always get knocked out showing the best hand either after flop (AA with rags or AK pairing K no A on the bd).. I am hoping that eventually these plays start showing +EV. I have only played 4 live tourneys so maybe not enough for +EV yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh great, a "should I have folded AA preflop?" and bad beat whine all in one post....

And no, you aren't a 9-1 favorite.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

You never want to get too much money in preflop with AA. My guide to tournament play explains how to play AA. Here is the link.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=2#Post2350862

Not ment as a whine.
 

This was not ment as a whine.. It was a real generic question about early play in a tournament with AA.. Didn't mean for it to sound like a whine.

I enjoy playing tournaments live. And was looking for a little advice for early preflop play when its your tournament life at stake.

Re: Not ment as a whine.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This was not ment as a whine.. It was a real generic question about early play in a tournament with AA.. Didn't mean for it to sound like a whine.

I enjoy playing tournaments live. And was looking for a little advice for early preflop play when its your tournament life at stake.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then please post on the Beginners forum.

Are you interested in playing heads up?

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

http://users.burgoyne.com/~jtod/crying%20baby.jpg

**WAHHHHHHH I LOST A 2 OUTER!!!**
**THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!! WAHHHHHHH**

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

9-1 odds!? Did he only have one hole card? Betgo are you serious, I will happily put any amount of money I can afford to lose in with A-A pre-flop if I can be sure of a caller. Bad beats happen.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

don't be discouraged by the replies to this post (mine included) - 2+2 is actually really useful. we just get sick of people writing posts that are, frankly, kind of dumb. of course you want to get all the chips in pre-flop with aces, you're a big favorite against any hand (run stats here. you'll get the best feedback if you post specific hands, and there is never a good reason to post results in a hand.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

[ QUOTE ]
9-1 odds!? Did he only have one hole card?

[/ QUOTE ]

actually AKo v AA is worse than 9:1.

But can you fold KK?
 

It's level 1 in a £250 freezout tournament.

Based on the entry cost you assume all players are reasonably experienced, but have no prior knowledge of any players at your table.

Big blind is 1% of avg. stack, no one is short.

You pick up K-K UTG and raise 3 times big blind, hoping to narrow field but get some interest. It's folded to late position who announces a raise of 70% of avg. stack. He has only played 1 of the approx. 10 hands so far when he limped & folded on the flop.

Do you give him the credit for A-A and fold your K-K?

Re: But can you fold KK?
 

You should start a new thread rather than hijacking this one. However, this is an easy push. It is unlikely someone would play AA that way. Your opponent's play is questionable. He might have AK.

Re: But can you fold KK?
 

Fold preflop. The only reason he is going allin against you is because he knows the J is coming on the flop. He obviously has hired a hi priced ho who is currently under the table servicing the dealer. As a result, the dealer has engineered this confrontation that you are about to be faced with. Fold, and foil their nefarious plan. Once the ho leaves from under the table, resume normal poker playing. If the ho returns, you must go back into a defensive shell to wait out the impending doom someone is about to receive.

Nick

OK OK..... It was a dumb post..
 

I get it...

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

Here's an interesting stat. If you get all-in preflop AA vs another pocket pair 3 hands in a row, about half of the time you are going to be going home by the end of that 3rd hand.

However, the other half of the time you're going to have a huge amount of chips! (assume quadruple up from what you had)

But if you aren't comfortable with being a 4-1 favorite preflop, you can always fold like Phil Hellmuth and wait for a better spot.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

[ QUOTE ]
... I have just won the last 4 or 6 hands. Built my chip stack up from the starting 800 to about 2K give or take...

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you have to show down any of these hands? If not, BB may be thinking that you're simply an unabashed thief and is making a stand with his larger stack.

Calling this all-in was the right decision. You were the clear favorite and should be happy to get your money in with the best hand. You were unlucky Villain hit one of his two outs but these things happen.

Steve

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

If facing a big pair are you more likely to crack it with an underpair or suited connectors?

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's an interesting stat. If you get all-in preflop AA vs another pocket pair 3 hands in a row, about half of the time you are going to be going home by the end of that 3rd hand.

However, the other half of the time you're going to have a huge amount of chips! (assume quadruple up from what you had)

But if you aren't comfortable with being a 4-1 favorite preflop, you can always fold like Phil Hellmuth and wait for a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, that's not really true.

Assume stacks of 1k for everyone.

Assume AA for you, and 77 for opponent, every time.

Hand 1: 80% of the time, you emerge with a 2k stack. 20% you go home.

Hand 2: 80% of the time you are now at 3k. While the remaining 20% you are now down to 1k.

Of that 80% that was at 3k

Hand 3: 80% you are now at 4k, while 20% you are down to 2k.

Of the 20% that was down to 1k:

80% of the time you double back to 2k. While 20% of the time you go broke.

So (And I'm not going to waste time figuring it out exactly, but I'm close) 23.2% of the time, you go broke. Someone with time can figure out what percentage you end up at 2k, 3, or 4k.

Nick

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

suited connectors, 76 or 87 I think is the best chance to crack AA.

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 1315602 76.83 391672 22.87 5030 0.29 0.770
8h 7h 391672 22.87 1315602 76.83 5030 0.29 0.230

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 1364608 79.69 343300 20.05 4396 0.26 0.798
7d 7h 343300 20.05 1364608 79.69 4396 0.26 0.202

you have a few more ways to make a hand with suited connectors.. the difference isn't huge but it's there.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

true.. I figured I'd assume worst case scenario for a post like this. =P

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

I would NEVER fold AA heads up in any game preflop NEVER. That would be a horrible mistake. However, if it was early in the tournament first few rounds I might lay it down to 3 all ins before me. Winning a pot that early helps you but its wont guarentee anything about making the final table. You let laday luck intheir. This actually happened to me i had KK in a tournemt 4 all ins before me i folded. Im not sure but i assume i would lay it down with 3-4 people in. This is again assuming it was early in a big torunent and i have a big stack. Short stack its an obvious all in given any circumstance.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

I dont care if the whole table goes all-in in front of me, I call with AA everytime.

KK is totally different, at that point you have to give reasonable thought to someone having the aces there

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

Why fold to 3 or 4 raisers? You are likely to have at least 1 if not more playing A-K or A-Q, and in a terrible spot. You are obviously going to be facing another large pair, maybe 2 but these are likely to be K-K or Q-Q and likely to have outs taken by A-big kicker.

This position is fantastic, I understand you don't want to risk your whole tourney, but you might not see another hand for 1hr. You are in a fantastic position to take early control of your table and the whole tournament, surely you've got to play it. If it gets cracked..that's life.

Re: Not ment as a whine.
 

whenever you can get your chips allin preflop with AA, do it.
There is nothing simpler than that.
It is ridiculous to think otherwise.

Re: But can you fold KK?
 

That's one of the funniest responses I've ever read.

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

http://lightsout.onestop.net/noose.jpg

Already did
 

NT

Re: Can AA be overvalued preflop early in MTT?
 

ROFL. Best reply so far

You are forgiven... Don\'t let it happen again n/m
 

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