LA Game busted!
 

An email I got this morning from one of my regular players. Coming from this person, I consider it 100% legit:


Hey guys,

I'm sending this info out to you who run games &
tourneys, so you can take all necessary precautions.
Feel free to pass this on to anyone else, but if you
forward this email, PLEASE PLEASE REMOVE my name and
email address.

I was playing in a typical cash game tonight, no-limit
$20 buy-in. About 30 minutes into it, one guy busted
out and went to the ATM to get more money. Back came
8-10 LAPD with shotguns and TEKs [censored] drawn with a
search warrant. (This is not a joke.) One by one we
were handcuffed, searched, sat down. Thankfully they
let all us players go after about an hour, citing us
for illegal gambling. Court appearance to follow in a
few weeks, and probable fine. The guy running it,
don't know what he's facing. I was gone before they
dealt with him, possibly taking him downtown, don't
know. They were confiscating everything gambling
related from his place. Yup... our tax dollars hard at
work, with the most understaffed metropolitan police
force in the nation, spending money and time on stuff
like this.

I tell you all this so that you can screen your
players if you don't know them. You've got to do this
from now on or it could just be a matter of time. You
probably either have to know them, or friends need to
vouch for who they are. Particularly since most of you
post your games at various websites.

Those of you outside the Los Angeles City limits may
not be at risk. Depends upon your city's ordanance
about this. As I was released, the cop explained that
any type of gambling for money is against the law
within the city limits as it's a city (not state)
ordinance. (Thus the reason all the card clubs/casinos
are outside of city limits.)

I will likely continue to play in some home games
around town (guess it depends upon how much my fine
will be), but you all need to be VERY CAREFUL now.
SCREEN your players. I know that makes it harder to
get a full game at times, but you gotta do it.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

Was the game raked? What were the specifics of the arrangement?
-Sam

Re: LA Game busted!
 

Probably reported on the nooz as a major Al Queida bust.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably reported on the nooz as a major Al Queida bust.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think this then you'll like

this

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably reported on the nooz as a major Al Queida bust.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing poker supports terrorism. I know the television told me so.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Was the game raked? What were the specifics of the arrangement?
-Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently there was a rake being taken for food + the host wasn't even playing in the game, just dealing. It's causing quite a stir with all the hosts of games in the area. I'll post more when I hear. I'd like to find out exactly what he is being charged with and obviously what fines etc.

Strangely, the most disturbing part to me is the fact that they confiscated everything! I have a few sets of chips. One wouldn't kill me (well maybe a little), but if they took ALL my chips, including the collectable ones, they might have to shoot me first! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Also, there's sometimes smoking (420) at the game. I'm sure the police would have loved that as a bonus.

Meanwhile the freeway sniper is still on the loose...

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Meanwhile the freeway sniper is still on the loose...


[/ QUOTE ]

nice

Re: LA Game busted!
 

I play in some of these home games in the LA area so I just made a few phone calls to the local police departments and code enforcement. Turns out that even though home games are legal by California Penal code 337j, certain cities do still make it illegal. So far I have verified that it is illegal in the following cities:
Los Angeles, Glendale, Burbank, San Gabriel and even Sherman Oaks which apparently falls under the city of Los Angeles.

The fact that local police are busting these games is sad to hear. Does anyone know if there are any cities in Southern California where it is legal to have a home game?

Re: LA Game busted!
 

Yeah, totally lame. I figured it fell under the category of "laws not enforced". I don't know what led them to this game, but I just heard of a game tonight and Friday that were canceled.

I'm curious how they're going about finding out about these games. Mine is posted on the usual sites, but there's no address or phone number, just email. I wonder if an undercover narc is involved?

I'm going to close my game to new people in the meantime. Hopefully no more get busted. What a waste of tax dollars -- busting a $20 Poker game.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

You can add the cities of Santa Monica and Gardena to the illegal list. But here is some good news, there is no city ordinance concerning gambiling in the city of Rancho Cucamonga, thus defaulting to CA penal code 337j. Rancho Cucamonga is good to go for home games.

Guess I'll start home shopping in that area [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: LA Game busted!
 

If you are really really curious about the bust you can do a Freedom of Information Act request to get the police report of the busted game. Hopefully that will say something about suspected drugs....or something else that explains busting a small stakes game like that.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

As I understand it the FOIA applies to federal bodies such as the military, not local authorities. I'll think I'll try to just call the local agency. Werewulf, can you be more specific as to the location so I can contact the appropiate precinct.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
As I understand it the FOIA applies to federal bodies such as the military, not local authorities. I'll think I'll try to just call the local agency. Werewulf, can you be more specific as to the location so I can contact the appropiate precinct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Los Angeles
Wilshire X Normandie

Re: LA Game busted!
 

that sucks, I never play in or can find big home games, but I used to play at the donut shop cash games a couple months ago, a 50c/1 variation,in LA city, and the past few times i have gone by it wasnt going, maybe they got busted too

Re: LA Game busted!
 

The fact that they have the time to bust lousy house games amusses me. Don't they have better things to do? Such as getting drugs off the streets, stopping robberies ,finding missing people or taking rapists off the streets?

All of those things harm people. Playing poker doesn't harm anyone.

A $20 buyin? I mean come on. The only busts the cops should be making is some big illegal gambling ring. Not a $20 buy in home game.

-HoldemPokerPlyr

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was the game raked? What were the specifics of the arrangement?
-Sam

[/ QUOTE ]



Also, there's sometimes smoking (420) at the game. I'm sure the police would have loved that as a bonus.



[/ QUOTE ]

What is 420? Is that LA slang for weed?

Re: LA Game busted!
 

What time is it?

4:20

Cool, tea time!

yeah, western for weed time... I heard that some police department used the radio code 4-20 for pot smoking in progress but that is just a rumor.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

usual lurker here, but I'll chime in. This is something I know about. I was a police reporter for a newspaper for years. A police report involving arrests is a public record. If you have the dept/date/time/address, you can defintely request it. Call the dept. in question and ask for the records office. Or better yet, show up in person. Sometimes the dept. will black out personal details (like phone numbers, any names of minors, etc...)

Re: LA Game busted!
 

My first thoughts were bullshit but I suppose it could be true. If this is true it's quite a fine example of your tax dollars at work and a solid case for there being way too many resources spent on stupid things.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

This honestly sounds like Urban legend email. I suppose it could be true, but a $20 buy-in home game? 8 cops? tek9's? Sounds greatly exaggerated if its true though.

With the popularity of poker these days it is to be expected these kinds of emails will make their rounds.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

It is possible for LA area players to get somewhat organized and lobby their council persons to change the city ordinance to allow card games where there is no "house." Even just a few people in a few council districts could probably have some kind of impact. Or there's always the initiative process.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

420....is not just a west coast thing...its the worldwide number to represent weed....it came about from this being Bob Marley's birthday ( april 20th )....also known as the weed smokers holiday.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
420....is not just a west coast thing...its the worldwide number to represent weed....it came about from this being Bob Marley's birthday ( april 20th )....also known as the weed smokers holiday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... April 20th is Adolf Hitler's b'day but not Bob Marley's. Bob Marley's birthday was Feb. 6. Maybe you're getting your pot-smoking lingo from Nazi propaganda.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
This honestly sounds like Urban legend email. I suppose it could be true, but a $20 buy-in home game? 8 cops? tek9's? Sounds greatly exaggerated if its true though.

With the popularity of poker these days it is to be expected these kinds of emails will make their rounds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not made up. Two of the guys cited were at my game yesterday and one brought the citation so we could all see it. Court date is 5/25 so I'll have more news then. They believe the host was arrested. He has not returned phone calls or email to anyone. It has now been one week since the incident and nobody has heard back from him. I didn't know the host, just two of the guys cited. The violation just say gambling and most of the citation is chicken scratch and hard to make out.

I've taken my game off the Internet as a result and will only allow people that I know or have been referred by people I know.

Apparently, they might have brought extra fire power because this was at an apartment building. When they called and asked him to buzz them in and told him it was LAPD, he thought it was a joke and said something to the effect of 'you better have plenty of fire power.' Not an exact quote, but he did think it was a joke.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, they might have brought extra fire power because this was at an apartment building. When they called and asked him to buzz them in and told him it was LAPD, he thought it was a joke and said something to the effect of 'you better have plenty of fire power.' Not an exact quote, but he did think it was a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is possible for LA area players to get somewhat organized and lobby their council persons to change the city ordinance to allow card games where there is no "house." Even just a few people in a few council districts could probably have some kind of impact. Or there's always the initiative process.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is being looked into. One guy that hosts a local game is an attorney. Another is a law student.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, they might have brought extra fire power because this was at an apartment building. When they called and asked him to buzz them in and told him it was LAPD, he thought it was a joke and said something to the effect of 'you better have plenty of fire power.' Not an exact quote, but he did think it was a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Also forgot to mention, the fine will supposedly be anywhere from $100 to $1000 for all the players cited at the game.

I do suspect that the local casinos are behind getting this game busted. I heard Commerce Casino advertising on the radio trying to get people to bring their home games to the casino. There are usually multiple home games (3 in the area last night) every night of the week. I imagine they started putting pressure on law enforcement since all these home games are allowed to advertise for free on the Internet.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

This is disturbing, I live in Santa Monica and enjoy my $20 home game with friends. What a load of crap, you'd think the worthless LAPD would be out trying to solve a freeway shooting or something.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

I'm sorry, but this reeks of bullshit. Let's count the dubious points.

1. EXTREMELY unlikely that LAPD would dedicate these kinds of resources to home gambling. The only way this is possible is if the cops in question were executing a warrant for something else (e.g. they had a tip it was a drug house) and found nothing. However, since you were already playing, they cited you for cardplaying.

2. If LAPD were busting home poker games, there's no way they'd have 8-10 person task forces doing the raids. They'd only need to knock on the door.

3. Commerce and other casinos CANNOT be behind an LAPD program. Commerce, Bike, etc. are NOT located within city of LA and they have no authority over LAPD. I guarantee that LAPD brass would laugh heartily if asked to mount an expensive campaign to build business for casinos outside the city limits!

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but this reeks of bullshit. Let's count the dubious points.

1. EXTREMELY unlikely that LAPD would dedicate these kinds of resources to home gambling. The only way this is possible is if the cops in question were executing a warrant for something else (e.g. they had a tip it was a drug house) and found nothing. However, since you were already playing, they cited you for cardplaying.

2. If LAPD were busting home poker games, there's no way they'd have 8-10 person task forces doing the raids. They'd only need to knock on the door.

3. Commerce and other casinos CANNOT be behind an LAPD program. Commerce, Bike, etc. are NOT located within city of LA and they have no authority over LAPD. I guarantee that LAPD brass would laugh heartily if asked to mount an expensive campaign to build business for casinos outside the city limits!

[/ QUOTE ]

I could really care less if you don't think it's real and am not going to waste time arguing with your lame points. If you're in the LA area, please advertise your game on the internet and we'll see if you're next.

I wanted to get a picture of the citation, but the guy that brought it is very paranoid and wouldn't let me get a photo.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

The city fine will actually between $10 and $1000 with the posibility of up to 6 months in jail at the judges discretion.

Also, I have called and spoke with the community relations officer but I can not get a police report unless I was cited. When I told him my concern that I was afraid to play poker at home games anymore, he said not to worry that the LAPD is not after home games and that there had to be another reason to bust that game like drugs, etc.

FYI, CA State law allows gambling so long as no rake is taken. (337j) However, LA County Law so far as I can tell, makes it illegal as well as LA city law. So basically no home games allowed in LA County.

There is a loophole, I think. Are there any lawyers here that can help to decifer this? If the CA penal code 337j "positively permits" home games then home games would be okay in LA county according to 13.20.020. They still would be subject to the local city ordinance.


Los Angeles County Ordinance

Chapter 13.20 GAMBLING AND RELATED ACTIVITIES (17)
13.20.020 Acts regulated by state.
The ordinance codified in this chapter does not prohibit any act either positively permitted or prohibited by state law. (Ord. 9555 § 2 (part), 1968: Ord. 461 Art. 1 § 3, 1917.)

13.20.030 Gambling activities prohibited.
A person shall not deal, play, carry on, or conduct:
A. Any game where players bet or wager money, checks, credits or other things of value against each other; or
B. Any game of chance for money, checks, credits or other things of value. (Ord. 11114 § 1, 1975: Ord. 9555 § 2 (part), 1968: Ord. 461 Art. 2 § 21, 1917.)

13.20.110 Violation -- Penalty.
Every person violating any provision of this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not exceeding $500.00 or by imprisonment in the County Jail for a period not exceeding six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment. (Ord. 9555 § 2 (part), 1968: Ord. 461 Art. 1 § 4, 1917.)

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]

I could really care less if you don't think it's real and am not going to waste time arguing with your lame points. If you're in the LA area, please advertise your game on the internet and we'll see if you're next.

I wanted to get a picture of the citation, but the guy that brought it is very paranoid and wouldn't let me get a photo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me be clearer: I'm don't doubt that your friend received a citation. However, the only way this could have happened is if the cops were looking for something else and stumbled into the poker game (as I wrote in my original post).

What's bull is the notion that LAPD is dispatching 10-person fully armed strike forces to execute misdemeanor warrants.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I could really care less if you don't think it's real and am not going to waste time arguing with your lame points. If you're in the LA area, please advertise your game on the internet and we'll see if you're next.

I wanted to get a picture of the citation, but the guy that brought it is very paranoid and wouldn't let me get a photo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me be clearer: I'm don't doubt that your friend received a citation. However, the only way this could have happened is if the cops were looking for something else and stumbled into the poker game (as I wrote in my original post).

What's bull is the notion that LAPD is dispatching 10-person fully armed strike forces to execute misdemeanor warrants.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong again. Thanks for your input.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

I am not a lawyer, but I thought that it was deemed in CA that poker is not a "gambling" game. That it is a game of skill. If this is true, would it really matter if the game was Hold'em or Rummy? Could the police bust a game of rummy played for money?

I host a home game near Palm Springs, CA (in Riverside County) so this has me a bit concerned as I thought the CA law presided. Do I need to check my city and county laws for compliance?

Re: LA Game busted!
 

Yes you need to check both your county and city law. They overide state law in the local jurisdiction.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I host a home game near Palm Springs, CA (in Riverside County)

[/ QUOTE ]

I just checked...Riverside County has no gambling ordinance so it defaults to state law. However if you are in the city of Palm Springs, your game is illegal. Maybe you can obtain a license... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Palm Springs Municipal Code
11.12.010 Gaming prohibited except in regulated clubs.

(a) Except as otherwise provided by Section 11.12.230 herein, it shall be unlawful for any person (i) to play or bet at, (ii) to deal, carry on or conduct, whether as owner or employee, (iii) or to knowingly permit in any house, room or place owned by him or under his charge, any game played, conducted, dealt or carried on with cards, dice or other device, for money, checks, chips, credit, merchandise or other representations of value. This ordinance shall not apply to any game or mechanical device defined in Part 1, Title 9, Chapter 10 of the California Penal Code (Section 330, et seq.)

(b) Except as otherwise provided by Section 11.12.230 herein, it shall be unlawful for any person, for himself or herself, or for any other person, corporation, or other business entity to engage in or carry on, or to maintain or conduct, or cause to be engaged in, carried on, maintained or conducted, or share in the profits of, any gaming club in the city of Palm Springs without first having secured a license from the city to do so and without compliance with all of the provisions of this chapter and state law pertaining to gaming clubs. No gaming operations shall be conducted in any location within the city unless so authorized under the provisions of this chapter.

Re: LA Game busted!
 

Actually I am in Cathedral City. Where can I find the code (or if you have it that would be great too)?. Also if it is a resource other readers can look up their own jurisdiction, you may want to post a link.

How can we actually fight this, and set a precedent for freedom?
 

Hey Everybody,
This is Gabriel from USC, I've played poker all over Los Angeles probably with many of you. (And Yeh come to my home cash games, we play $1-2 blinds, or $0.50-$1 blinds.)

First of all, that LA bust really happened at the Tuesday game. I've talked to 2 guys who were cited, and that was one of my favorite regular, friendly home games, that i went to many times in Koreatown.

Okay, now what is the next step? LA is the poker capitol of the world, with Millions of dollars exchanging hands in home games! I'd even say there are over 1 million people who have played home game poker in LA.

So what can we do to set a precedent for this, and at least help the victimless crime-victims from that Tuesday game? That's what we should be discussing on this board. This bust/arrest/ruling effects everyone of us!

1. One person suggested going to John and Ken Show They are a talk radio, who support people's rights like this. They may run with this topic.

An even greater idea would be to organize a celebrity spokesperson to spearhead a campaign for the freedom of LA home poker. Like Woody Harrelson for Weed. I know this would be some work (and fun), but everyone would benefit.

2. I ran across this site Texans for Poker
It's and organized groups in Texas fighting for the freedom of poker.

Are there any sites, or organizations like that in LA?
Maybe Libertarians groups would fight for the cause?

3. Further down the road if the goverment gets more out of control, we can organize an initiative for the ballot, but that would be the most work wouldn't it?

Any other constructive, positive ideas? We are all smart people here.

Fight on!

Gabriel
213-280-8045 (Call me about my cash game, i take no rake)

Fully Informed Jury Association
 

Here is a great non-profit, freedom organization.


Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA)



American Jury Institute

There are focused simply on education Jury members on their freedoms! The freedom to use their brain, and common sense.

The whole site is ALL common sense, but alas, common sense isn't common. (For example, Jurors voting guilty to fine a guy for playing friendly poker.)

What do you think about this? This freedom basically solves all victimless crime cases, but how do you educate the masses on their freedom??


fight on,

Gabe

Re: LA Game busted!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I am in Cathedral City. Where can I find the code (or if you have it that would be great too)?. Also if it is a resource other readers can look up their own jurisdiction, you may want to post a link.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've just been doing a yahoo search for "(city name) municipal code." Most of them are online and then I just search them for keywords such as "cards" or "gambling."

Your city is listed at http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com/codes/cathedral/

Gambling is covered as follows:

11.12.010 Gambling house--Conducting.

It is unlawful for any person either as principal, agent or employee, or otherwise, to keep, conduct or maintain within the city, any house, room, apartment, stand or place used in whole or in part as a gambling house or place where any game not mentioned in Chapter 10, Title 9, Part 1, of the Penal Code of the state, is played, conducted, dealt or carried on with cards, dice or other device, for money, checks, chips, credit, pennants, cigars, candy, merchandise or other valuable thing or representative of value. (Ord. 15 § 1 (part), 1982)