Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

I don't get it. I see lots of comments here such as "well he must be doing something right to have won xyz tournament". It surprises me that lots of the posters here have no clue about the sort term luck necessary to win major tournaments. Note that I am not diminishing the accomplishments of very skillful players like Daniel N., TJ Cloutier, Brunson, etc. I am trying to point out that if you do not necessarily have good poker skills and instincts just because you won a tournament. I can easily point to people like Ted Lawson and Chad Brown as below average poker players who have won, or placed high in large money tournaments. I can also point to players whose high variance style will bite them in the rear if they choose not to invest the money they won vs. putting it back into play or overextendign themselves(Esfandiari, Tuan Le, etc.).

In fact, at this point, I would guess that Raymer and Moneymaker have both invested and saved their World Series winnings and play off sponsorships, and at levels they are comfortable with. I'll also note that Chan and Hellmuth, both legendary players, chose to invest large sums of their WS winnings in business and stocks.

The fact that these players invest at least part of their winnings indicates that they understand that tournament poker has lots of swings(and short term luck), and that they need to build a nest egg to sustain themselves when their luck runs dry.

So quit saying players must be doing something right to win tournaments. They can do tons wrong, and still get lucky win a tournament or two.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

you just went 0-8 in Sunday Tournements ?

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

I have entered 7 home tournaments(30-50 entrants), and 4 casino tournaments in the past 7 months. In the home tournaments I have 1 win and 2 third places. In the casino tournaments I have 1 win in a $100 buyin at the Bike(I suppose verafiable via the Hendon Mob DB if I wanna give my real name) and one money finish(got my money back basically).

It's not about any sort of bitterness and its ridiculous for you to assume so with no information other than my post.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

Why do you think Chad Brown is a below average player?

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

Is that a serious question?

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

Not only does this post not make any sense, you're an a$$ too.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

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Is that a serious question?

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Yes, please enlighten me.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

I have only seen Chad Brown on tv in the world series event. In that event, he made a number of calls that were poor. This has been discussed on this board a few times. If you have not seen the show, or if you have seen it and do not think that Chad Brown played poorly, I cannot convince you otherwise here. Further, Chad Brown played in a few other tournaments that were not televised and I am relying on other peoples accounts of how he played.

But Chad Brown is not the point of my thread. The point of my thread was that people ought not be considered good poker players soley because they win or place high in a couple major tournaments. The reason for this is that there is much short term luck in poker tournaments.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

In one week I played 3 tourneys at casinos in Tunica. I won one with 77 players. I won the next one with 81 players. The last one I placed 9th out of 104. They were all about 100 entry. Well i started to think how good I was and since I've barely placed in the past 25 tourneys. I guess I suck.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

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Ted Lawson and Chad Brown as below average poker players

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With the seemingly neverending string of truly abysmal players that are pokering it up on a daily basis online and in casinos, do you really believe that if you pooled all of the "talent" together they could come out as below the average? If so, why?

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

Maybe I used the wrong language. Perhaps I should have said below average for tournament players

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ted Lawson and Chad Brown as below average poker players

[/ QUOTE ]


With the seemingly neverending string of truly abysmal players that are pokering it up on a daily basis online and in casinos, do you really believe that if you pooled all of the "talent" together they could come out as below the average? If so, why?

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

I had heard that he was a pro who played black chip games regularly. I have not seen him play outside of the televised tournament, but I figured it would be near impossible for anyone who was even close to average to make a living playing 100-200 and above.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

He was an out of work actor. They did not describe him as a pro on the world series broadcast and I have never heard anyone, here on these forums or on tv, describe him as anything but an amateur. Where did you hear he is a pro who makes his living at poker?

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

Well I do know for sure that he plays in high limit games. In fact he was seen playing 400-800 in a 'live at the bike' broadcast. I don't know his financial situation, but wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that an out of work B-movie actor would not be able to withstand losing consistantly at these stakes?

Also, Russ Georgiev (infamous RGP cheating accuser) describes him as an well-known pro who makes most of his income from poker. I realize it isn't a very credible source, but it would be kind of a silly detail to lie about.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

Well he did win a few hundred grand in the World Series stud event so maybe that is where he got some of his financial support. I know he was doing play by play for some poker television show too. Maybe he drastically improved his game since then, but he played like an amatuer in the World Series. If I remember correctly, he even called himself a novice in one of the world series interviews.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tourna
 

classic

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tourna
 

I am very incorrect regarding Chad Brown. He has won a few tournaments over the past couple of years. In the write ups, they all make reference to Brown being a competent player. Nothing about him being a novice.

I am also incorrect about the amount he won in the world series. I thought it was the $5K stud event. It was not. It was the $1500 one and he got paid $65,000. If you sum his tournament wins over the past two years, it is in excess of $700K I believe.

So I am wrong. I apologize for my posting with out knowledge.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

Why do you care? Poker isn't about reputation, only results. If they are bad, they'll go broke soon enough, and then you can smugly say "ha ha."

The truth is that most players who win a tournament ARE doing something right. Any "rule" has an exception, whether it's Lawson, or Hal Fowler, or Varkonyi, or whoever you want to name a bad player.

In the end, it just doesn't matter. Like I said, there's a wonderful scorekeeping mechanism in poker.

Re: Why do people think that you are a good player if you win a tournament
 

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I have only seen Chad Brown on tv in the world series event.

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I stopped reading there.