Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Anyone actually tried playing this way? Seems to me, the more I play online the tighter the games get.

I wonder if his style might work by running over the games, or do people still call too much for this to be effective?

When I first started out playing online, I sort of tried his style, but I have to say, I didn't do it correctly (ie if I had an AK that missed, and someone reraised me I would go all in with just Ace high). So as you can imagine, I lost many buy ins before I tightened up.

Anyone who really knew what they were doing try the Brunson style?

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Im just getting into NL and I can say for sure that I ain't playing it the right way, loosing way too much

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

doyles style worked and works for him because he is a master card reader......he has a great knack for putting an opponent on a hand as well as exceptional timing, "feel", and the ability to switch gears........unless your doing it all it could be disaterous...........:)

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

I havent read the book. What is Doyle Brunson's Style?
is the book good?

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Well throw up a post, I for one would be happy to help you. I ain't perfect myself, but I think I mostly know what the right play is, even if I don't always do it [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

And if I don't there's plenty of very knowledgeable people on here that can help you out.

David

Re: here\'s the thing that they don\'t tell you
 

Doyle's style worked for him in an era of NL where the games were live, extremely deep stacked and his opponents were weak tight.

In capped buyin NL online games (or live for that fact) the stacks aren't deep (for the most part) and the games are loose, so alot of plays that Doyle made just flat don't have the effectiveness that they once did.

Sure you can incorporate some of his plays that do work, I can float on the flop to take away on the turn with the best of them, but don't get nuts with some of the plays Doyle suggests, cause online your fold equity is nowhere near as high.

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

"I havent read the book. What is Doyle Brunson's Style?
is the book good?"

Are you being sarcastic? Oh well, if you are I can afford to waste a few minutes of my time explaining it anyways....

I don't think I've ever heard someone say SuperSystem is not a good book, although I have heard a few say that time has to some extent passed his style by (I'm personally on the fence on this one).

His style is agression...make your opponent make a decision for all his chips. Many young players today have the impression that his play was much like Gus Hansen...this is incorrect. Doyle had a stringent selection of starting hands, but when he was in a pot, even with just suited connectors, he would hammer away with bets and raises. His philosophy was if he was the raiser, bet irregardless of what the flop was (90% of the time), if he got raised, if he had any kind of draw (even as little as in inside straight draw) he would go ahead and get all his chips in. Or if he had the third button with a hand, he would still go ahead and get all his chips in the middle if raised.

If he was on a rush, then he might play a garbage hand and even raise with it, but only when he was rushing.

He also believed in changing gears, occasionally tightening up, and then suddenly going back to the aggressive style.

To give an example of a play he advocates, a guy raises with AK in early position you call with 56 of diamonds. The flop comes A78 rainbow. He bets, you raise all in. Obviously, if you play ever hand like that, the guy is going to call you in a second. But if you also are changing gears, well, particularly in a high limit game, he may throw his hand away, and if he doesn't you have about a 1/3 chance of drawing out. You get compensated for the times you miss by players throwing their hands away. Also, you don't know what the guy has. A pair of Kings would be very hard pressed to call the all in, for example. So by exerting this kind of pressure, you will likely get all but he strongest hands to fold.

Hope that explains it well for you, if anyone has anything to add please feel free.

David

Re: here\'s the thing that they don\'t tell you
 

That's a good point with the capped buy ins....hadn't really even thought of that.

A lot of recreational players don't mind losing a buy in, and they're happy to look you up (especially if you seem like an action player) with some pretty weak hands.

I'm curious if this still goes in the 5000 buy in NL games though.

I think overall you're probably right though, players are more weak loose than weak tight nowadays, so his style was effective because of the conditions he played in.

David

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

You may want to reread his NL section. Many players make the assumption that Doyle is advising you to continually go all in, raise left and right never let someong play back at you and so on.

If you read the entire section carefully, you will see that Doyle advises that if you raise preflop and it is checked to you, bet. But, he puts in a caveats about the type of players you are playing against and the texture of the board. Furthermore, he repeatedly suggests that you need to have the ability to "get away" from hands.

Doyle's genereal strategy is to be the most aggressive player at the table--I don't think anyone on this forum would tell you there in any money in passivity. However, it is each players personal responsiblilty to selectively direct that agression.

ps I wouldn't try the 'ol raise any two cards after I win a pot trick too often. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Dave, I have read the no-limit section of SS several times, and believe it would be impossible to emulate Doyle's play just from reading it. There are simply too many subtleties to an NL poker strategy that could not be conveyed in a single chapter of a book; it tries to condense the essence of his style, and does a pretty good job of that.

A couple of reasons Doyle's method must be modified to work properly at the online game:
1) Antes. Remember the saying about Broomkorn's Uncle? Well, he WOULDN'T get anted to death, because there are no antes in most online NL Hold 'Em games. This removes a vital element of Doyle's preflop strategy, and heavily tilts the action towards post-flop play. Simply put, there is much less dead money to fight over in each pot.
2) Reads. A much higher percentage of the data one gathers to base one's reads on in the online game are bet-related (i.e. a player's bets, calls, and raises are used to get a read on his hand), as opposed to all the visual and audio input of a live game. Doyle happened to be very good at this, and this was a vital part of his game. This aided him in honing his aggression, and focusing it when he detected weakness.

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Thx Dave. And no, I wasnt sarcastic.

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

The blinds are esentially the ante. 5/10 game 10 handed means the ante is 1.50 a hand.

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Thanks for the input everybody.

I was rereading Doyle's Wisdom of a Champion this afternoon, and he mentioned how back when he got started all the books adviced a patient, passive strategy in poker. In fact, one book was even entitled "the Waiting Game".

So if that was the mindset at the time, it makes even more sense how he could dominate with agression.

Also, just to clear something up, I was rereading the NL section today, and Doyle does not advocate going all in with third pair. He said the hand he was looking for with suited connectors was a straight draw, and if he flopped one, he was willing to put all his chips in with it.

David

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

If you read the section he wrote carefully you will understand that when he speaks of the style in which he plays he's states and this is most important.... that "this is how I would play against a good NL player"

Don't follow his book like Bible, use it to make adjustments to your play.

When you are playing against poorer players you have to make the obvious play, but against a good player you can "manufacture a hand" and have many more tools to work with.

I hope this helps.

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

one of the most basic, and often misunderstood, themes of doyle's approach is that he likes to get all of OTHER peoples chips in the middle when he's behind, not his own, to affect his table image. he isn't nearly as risky and wild as many suggest; it is a very smart approach when you have everyone at the table covered and can afford to throw some chips around.

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Sure blinds can be treated as antes, but they are so small in relation to usual stack sizes that overaggression to win them is foolish. When you are playing deepstacked (>120xBB), jamming to win blinds is a little ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the antes that Doyle referred to are much larger in relation to stack size than the blinds that most internet players play with.

I think the correlation between average dead money in the pot and aggression necessary is very strong.

Re: Doyle Brunson\'s Style of Playing No Limit
 

Solely because of capped buy-ins on internet card rooms as well as some live one's now. I'm be willing to bet that the stacks Brunson played with were deeper then 120xBBs and at stakes where even a few big blinds add up very quick. I've been to many games live where if you play like Brunson and the first time you get looked up you have a hand you can run the table the rest of the night with ease.