Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

I wasn't sure 100% yet what I thought about this, thought I'd get some input.

A new player, very raw, wants to bring an "odds sheet" as he called it, to have at the table tonight for our tourney. I don't know what it is exactly- I told him I'd bring it and make a decision tonight.

What do you think? Does this open a can of worms? I don't want to make decisions on what are valid sheets and which aren't (can you start bringing notes on players? Hands to play in position? etc)
Would a special rule for first-time DPC members make sense? Do I decide based on perceived skill?

FYI- This is a player who is VERY new to real poker- I had a special training session with him for a few hours last week on tournament play.

Let me know this afternoon, thanks
LL

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

I can't imagine why not other than they will be percieved as an unskilled player, but that will happen very quickly anyway.

-I played a home tourny a few days ago and a girl who had a cheat sheet won it. lol

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

Why not? It seems to me that if they play from a strategy sheet than they can be pushed off pots far easier. What are they holding? Know the cheat sheet and you know the player.

I would put in a restriction that everyone gets to look at the sheet first.

I say no way
 

I say no way. First off, if he wants to be good, hes gotta start remembering things. Now a cheat sheet for what hand beats what is alright, but not a sheet that says when to play what cards. If you allow him to do it... you must allow everyone. But then that takes away the fun of poker and a tourney

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

I would have no problem with it. If I am not comfortable beating someone who has to use a cheat sheet, I need to quit the game. This is like turning down dead money, right?

-Trail

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

It depends what the mood at your games usually is.

I host a friendly tournament a couple of times per month, and there are some unskilled players that like having the 'hand order' cheat sheet nearby to double-check that full houses beat flushes and such. I would (and do) allow this sort of request in my game.

Just make sure you don't end up cluttering the table with all manner of cheat sheets and such.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

What do I think? I think I want that guy at my game! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. If he wants to have a notebook with notes on strategy, odds, player notes, or whatever, so be it. As long as he's not holding up the game by referring to it everytime the action's on him, I would care less.

Re: I say no way
 

[ QUOTE ]
I say no way. First off, if he wants to be good, hes gotta start remembering things. Now a cheat sheet for what hand beats what is alright, but not a sheet that says when to play what cards. If you allow him to do it... you must allow everyone. But then that takes away the fun of poker and a tourney

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you would run a nice friendly game... not.

I have seen people reading Poker for Dummies at a table before. No lie!

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A new player, very raw, wants to bring an "odds sheet" as he called it, to have at the table tonight for our tourney. I don't know what it is exactly- I told him I'd bring it and make a decision tonight.

[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK, a casino will let you read anything you want at the table. If somebody complains, the floor might look it over, but I've never heard of them banning cheat sheets or anything else.

The only sticking point in a home game is that if somebody vets it and it contains specific strategy information, that person will have an advantage over other players, and if everybody reads it, that could severely handicap the new guy.

I'd let him in blind. There's no way to use it to cheat, so what's the problem?

jafager

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

I believe in a tournament most casinos won't let you have any reading material but I see people reading all sorts of stuff in cash games... racing forms, magazines, even a novel once. I would allow cheat sheets but draw the line at any kind of mechanical device. I don't think anyone else needs to read his sheet unless someone thinks he's cheating, then there should be full disclosure.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

Bring the cheat sheet. Don't you remember me playing Omaha with my Hutchinson cheat sheet?

You have an 800-page rule book. Surely this has to be covered in there somewhere! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously, I'm sure there is no rule against it and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

I seem to remember watching a tournament on tv (maybe a year ago - don't remember which broadcast), and someone pulled out some kind of odds 'cheat sheet'. I remember the commentators mentioning that while it was unprecedented at that level, it was within the rules...

J5

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

How about using a computer?

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How about using a computer?

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This is pretty funny, actually. At a home game I regularly play in (1/2 blind no-limit holdem), one of the players often brings his laptop and will sit out an orbit or two (or more if its an issue of not having enough seats for the players that have shown up) and play 15/30 limit on his computer. One day, he was actually sitting at the table playing 1/2 NL live while simultaneously playing 2 tables of 15/30 limit on the computer. It was an aspect of multitabling I'd never considered [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to remember watching a tournament on tv (maybe a year ago - don't remember which broadcast), and someone pulled out some kind of odds 'cheat sheet'. I remember the commentators mentioning that while it was unprecedented at that level, it was within the rules...

J5

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Gordon, Aruba, WPT Season 1. I believe versus hellmuth (or harman). It was pretty funny. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I say no way
 

[ QUOTE ]
I say no way. First off, if he wants to be good, hes gotta start remembering things.

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You know a lot of pros take notes at the table, right? Fossilman was shown doing it on the 2004 WSOP after the infamous 'tiny balls' hand. The bellagio allows players to keep small laptops at their tables now, too. I do imagine that one will eventually get shot down, tho.

[ QUOTE ]
If you allow him to do it... you must allow everyone.

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Heavens!

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

I keep a cheat sheet at my game. Piece of paper that says "raise".

I think it's fine, assuming you aren't playing for huge amounts of cash and people don't vehemently object. At my tourney we had a new player who brought his "two pair loses to a 3 of a kind" sheet and he won was 2nd in his first tourney and won his second one.

No big deal IMO.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

He sounds like dead money. Let him play.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

Let him use anything he wants, it won't matter.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

Who cares. Let 'em bring it. Hell, let them bring their autographed copy of Hellmuth's "Play Poker Like the Pros".

They will be berated...and when their finger scrolls down their cheet sheet or when they start looking at their sheet at all, you can pretty well guess they are on a draw. I'd love to play with a table full of cheet sheet users....tell heaven.

-Ryan

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

Obviously this "cheat sheet" affords him no unfair advantage at all, so it should be allowed. The real issue is how the other players percieve it. I imagine there are some other novice players present, and it is them who may take issue with this. I think you need introduce this in the right way, and make sure every one else understands what it is. All the decent players obviously wont care, but I think you should have copies available for the newbies, if they think this will even any advantage.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

It seems to me, that as long as the player is not getting real time information form another person, anything, including computers, should be allowed (as long as they are not in the way).

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

Let him bring it. I imagine that you'd like him to come back again. It shouldn't be an issue with the other players. Who cares if he's using a sheet to help him determine the odds of drawing to a hand--especially if it's the second best hand he's drawing to? Will the sheet explain implied odds, reverse implied odds, hidden outs, the advantages of position, etc.? Even if, that's too much info for a newB to use successfully. Let him use it. I imagine he'll learn the important ones pretty quickly (that a flush draw and open ended straight draw are pretty close to the same) and he won't end up using it too much.

Re: Someone wants to bring a cheat sheet to our tourney- thoughts?
 

Welcome him with open arms.