Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

I spent about four hours at Wynn's poker room this evening, and my expectations were easily met (if not exceeded). This poker room is really fantastic.

The furnishings are top of the line. The entire room has a very classy and up-scale feel. Unlike the MGM which has a cool and trendy up-scale feel, I would say that Wynn is more dignified. Perhaps, a better room for older card players, or at least card players that are put off by the music and go-go dancers at MGM's new poker room.

One thing you will notice immediately is that the felt on the poker tables has no markings, logos, commitment lines, or anything else. The tables are just simple green. And, they all have auto shufflers. This is the way the whole room is -- it's simple, yet elegant, with the appropriate accouterments.

Honestly, the biggest problem with the physical room is that it seems like they squeezed a few too many tables in. The room has 27 tables right now. It would be perfect with 20 tables. Sure, I understand Steve has anxious shareholders, and Wall Street is watching closely -- but this room would be even better if a few tables were removed.

So, of course, I was impressed with the actual room. But, I was much, much, much more impressed with the staff. Everyone was playing their A-game. From the dealers to the cocktail waitresses to the room management. They were all consistently excellent. I found this especially remarkable considering it was opening night, and there was literally chaos outside the poker room. Yet, despite the chaos, I felt like the poker room was being run very well under the circumstances. Even more important than the organization were the employees' attitudes. These people take customer service seriously, and it showed.

I do think the Wynn poker room will be a great success. However, I'm not certain it's where the biggest games will go. The Bellagio finished its remodelling yesterday, and it's something else -- especially "Bobby's Room" -- the private poker room for the games that start at $2,000/$4,000 -- If Wynn wants the biggest games, then I hope he will build a private room like that.

All in all, Wynn is among the top three poker rooms in Vegas right now -- along with Bellagio and MGM. They all have their pluses and minuses, so I can't say one is better than the other. I don't think a player visiting Vegas would be disappointed with any of those choices.

Oh - Comps! I almost forgot to mention. Wynn is offering $1 per hour in comp dollars on games up to $30/60, and $1.50 per hour on the higher stakes games. But, here's the kicker -- there is NO DAILY MAXIMUM. This is a first as far as I know for Vegas.

Also, all of the no limit games have no maximum buy-in. Last night the room was spreading $1/2 ($100 min), $2/5 (200 min), and $10/20 ($500 min). I was told that even the $1/2 had a $100 minimum with no maximum. This is an experiment. I'm interested in learning how it plays out.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

I went there last night. Supremely overcrowded, maybe by as many as 3 tables. Other than that it was nice. Lighting was dim. Comps are $1-$1.50/hr depending on the limit you are playing. Electronic board. Shufflers. I recognized some good dealers.

They were spreading mostly 4-8 last night. 1 to 2 8-16 games, a few 15-30's. Some LL stud and Omaha8 as well. $2 chips for the $8-16.

I am disappointed that they spread 3-chip 2-chip games, but given the desire to compete against Bellagio and the room manager coming from a 3-chip 2-chip house I'm not surprised. That's really unfortunate unless they then go to a $50-100 and a $100-200 instead of $80-160. There may well not be the demand for that many games at those limits though. One would think that Commerce migrating to solely 40-80 after spreading both 30-60 and 40-80 would be the model for other rooms, but I guess not.

Staff was very friendly, etc. but you'd expect nothing less on opening night.

So to recap:

Negatives:
Cramped
Spreading the wrong structure games in middle limits.

Positives:
Everything else unless you dislike dim lighting.

As for the rest of the Casino, it's extremely nice. Kind of like Bellagio on steroids. The inside of the mountain in the front is absolutely the bomb.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

Couldn't agree more with what everyone has been saying. I was cramped. Where is this room going to fit into the Vegas poker scene? Right now, this is my take: MGM is by far the leader in the lower limit scene, not only with its room design and atmosphere, but the amount of 2/4, 4/8, and 1/2 nl games being spread. Who will be the leader in the higher limit market? Will people want to play at Wynn? Or will the Bellagio keep its tight hold on the big game market? I was hoping to see a review on the new Bellagio room, since I've been to Wynn already...

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lighting was dim.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm.. at my table I took note that the lighting was good. I actually discussed this with another player. We were talking about lighting in various card rooms, and I thought the lights at Wynn were pretty good. Not too bright, but not too dim (like Monte Carlo for example, which has a nice atmosphere, but I don't care for the low light environment).

Perhaps it depends on the table. I only played at one table for the entire evening. I'll be going back soon, and I'll definitely double check the light situation.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

I definintely agree with your assessment of the MGM -- it is a low limit paradise. Also, I don't expect to see the highest stakes action move from the Bellagio anytime soon, especially after the remodelling, and the addition of Bobby's Room (the private, guarded poker room for the really big games).

I think there is a place for Wynn. If nothing else, Wynn will probably attract a lot of wealthy players who don't want to leave the property. There won't be a shortage of high stakes action at Wynn, and the room could establish itself as the best middle limit room in town (say, $8/16 to $30/60).

Any way you slice it, the best rooms in Vegas are Bellagio, MGM, Wynn (in alphabetical order [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am disappointed that they spread 3-chip 2-chip games, but given the desire to compete against Bellagio and the room manager coming from a 3-chip 2-chip house I'm not surprised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played very much B&M, could someone explain to my ignorant ass what a 3-chip 2-chip structure is?

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

I think he means 2-chip, 3 chip house. This refers to spreading games that a a 2 chip, 3 chip blind structure (for example 15-30 with a $10 SB and $15 BB, 30-60 with a $20 SB, $30 BB). Some players prefer games like 20-40, 40-80 instead.

Jeff

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some players prefer games like 20-40, 40-80 instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad players make more mistakes by playing too many small blinds in these games.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

I thought the argument was that the opposite was true (i.e. they limp/call with more trash in the 2/3 blind games than in 2/4 blind structures), leading to greater and more freqeunt postflop blunders that bust them out quicker, meaning 2/3 blind games dry up quicker than 2/4 blind structures. But i dunno

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

In 2/3 structures, the player is almost never making a mistake by completing with any two cards. In 1/2 structures, bad players complete too many times with poor hands.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

I haven't even bothered with the new bellagio room because I can't see their adding a mere 10 tables is going to make the waits any shorter for the games I like to play (8-16, 2-5 no limit, and occasionally 15-30). Long lines might be the case for the wynn too, time will tell. This phenomenon might keep me primarily at MGM, as well as many others playing the smaller stakes games. However, I may foray into the 5-10 no limit from time to time at either MGM or Wynn.

al

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

yeah, but what about the point of my post? didn't mason write an essay about this 2/3 v 2/4 stucture issue and come out in favor of 2-4 cause bad players go broke slower.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

There's a limitless amount of bad players now so that's not really the issue. For whatever reason, and to me it doesn't matter what the reason is, the 2-1 structured games are simply "better" than the 3-2 games. As I wrote earlier, to me Commerce is the best and most scientific example of this that exists as both were spread and now the 3-2 games are basically dead, and it's not been because of people going broke, its been because they choose the 2-1 games.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
$2 chips for the $8-16.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am surprised that I am the first one to point out the best thing about Clark's post... a 4 chip small bet - 8chip big bet structure is GREAT for action. The pots will be huge, the chip stacks will be huge, and the gamblers will flock to this game. I predict this game will be a huge success for the Wynn, I am happy to see them experimenting by thinking outside the traditional Vegas box. For those of you who have been following another thread here in the B&M forum, recently the Trop in AC just did the same by using $2.50 pink chips in their newly revived 10/20 game.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

They run the same $2 chips $8-16 game at Canterbury Park in MN (where I think a lot of the Wynn staff has been hijacked from) and that game has hella gamBOOOOL.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

They used smaller 7 card stud tables for all 27 too right?

That was pretty friggin stupid!

If it's that cramped then it's not a top 3 room in my mind, but I will see it soon.

No max at 1/2 NL is friggin nuts to me too, why bother playing 2/5 and higher?

I'll just buy in for $40,000 at 1/2 and eat all the players up, too much of an advantage to the bigger bankrolls, and very unfriendly for touristy types, IMHO.

The managers of the poker room, obviously are not serious players themselves based on the descriptions I am hearing... CRAMPED is the only word I had to read to know that.

>TW<

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

It did appear that all tables were stud tables. Certain ones were cramped, tho not ALL of them.

As for the no max buy-in, I understand the "theoretical" implications. However, in practice it might not be that way.

For instance, I only brought about $500 with me to the wynn this morning. I was planning on playing that, and if I lost it all, quitting. I also did not plan to play in ANY game where I was way outmatched, or outstacked. Even a player with 1/3 of my "theoretical" skills could certainly make it difficult for me if he really knew how to use a big stack to his advantage. However, I have not seen this as the norm in smaller las vegas no limit games.

As I said earlier, I actually SAT DOWN at the 2-5 no limit at the wynn, where there is no max buy-in. I only bought in for $240. Seemed appropriate, as only one person at the table had much more than that, one guy had $600 or so. If everyone had $3000 I would certainly have NOT sat down at that game.

In the 1-2 game I played, the giant stack was perfectly positioned two to my right. He bullied a lot, but I never really got involved with him, at least not till he bullied me when I had aces. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Everyone else mostly had either way less than I did, or a little more. No biggie.

Part of no limit play is assessing the game and situation both before you sit down, and after you're seated. If things are good, you stay. If things are bad, you leave. Stack sizes and aggressiveness of players are two of the parameters you consider. The hard part is knowing when conditions are poor, AND have the discipline to leave the game.

If the no max buy-in policy at wynn turns out to leave my somewhat meager bankroll at a severe disadvantage, so be it. There are plenty of games at other casinos, like MGM, or I could just play 8-16 or 15-30 at the wynn. I have the discipline to leave a game when conditions are poor. After all, I live here, there is always another game to be found.

If you want to buy into 1-2 no limit for $40,000, go ahead. I think you'll find it to be MAJOR overkill tho. There is only going to be so much money on the table, and it will be mostly proportionate to the size of the blinds, not the fact that they are all no max buy-in.

On the flip side, I do think that buying into 1-2 with $300 or more will wind up being a significant advantage for players such as myself, particularly if the game happens to be full of timid, fishy players who aren't buying in for much more than the $100 minimum.

al

$2 chips for 8-16
 

This is a FANTASTIC idea. This alone might make me want to play this game constantly. California casinos mostly do it this way (at least the ones I have played in) and there is NO DOUBT it stimilates MAJOR ACTION.

AL

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

Nice follow up, I was exaggerating a bit on the 40G's of course, but Binion's has same policy on their NL game and I have heard that there are several evil doers who hide stacks of $100's under their chip trays in that game.

Would be amusing to bring a few $1000 chips to the $1/$2 at Wynn and it won't look so threatening at first when surrounded by $200 in $1's.

>TW<

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

I wanted to talk to you last night. I was seated at table 20 seat 4 next to the dude in blue with the Dodgers cap.
I was with in earshot of you last night when you were chating with Daniel. I was really impressed with the room I agree it was a bit cramped.

Cheers
Steve

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would be amusing to bring a few $1000 chips to the $1/$2 at Wynn and it won't look so threatening at first when surrounded by $200 in $1's.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record if you hide your chips they don't play. I have ruled on that point when a player had some $500 chips hidden in the center of his chip stacks.

Re: $2 chips for 8-16
 

so does Canterbury Park in Minnesota....

Where the Wynn's card room manager came from and where I understand a few of our dealers came from, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see you guys using $2 chips.

RB

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

Whose Jeff?

As far as hiding the chips and not playing, I basically meant hidden from RAILBIRDS.

At binions the bills are there, but as a stack, how can you know amount?
They should make them convert them to chips...

>TW<

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

Out of question could anyone tell any diffrence with the chips? I work for an AV trade association and am taking a tour of the Wynn about their tech systems in June and those chips seem pretty cool technologically. Was just wondering if the chips in the chips were noticable and if they had recievers in the poker room (doubtful) or the BJ or roulette tables that anyone noticed?

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

just curious, but if you were to buy in for a huge amount, why would you want to hide it? isnt the goal to intimidate weaker opponents with your bigger stack? if you are hiding it then whats the point of buying in for more?

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
just curious, but if you were to buy in for a huge amount, why would you want to hide it? isnt the goal to intimidate weaker opponents with your bigger stack? if you are hiding it then whats the point of buying in for more?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have $600. I say all-in. You call, thinking you just called a $200 bet. Surprise, I had a $500 chip hidden. You just got screwed.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard that there are several evil doers who hide stacks of $100's under their chip trays

[/ QUOTE ]

You simply don't put up with these A-holes. If the game has these people in it, you either make the dealer force them to abide by proper rules and ettiquette, or you go play elsewhere.

al

Re: Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
I went there last night. Supremely overcrowded, maybe by as many as 3 tables. Other than that it was nice. Lighting was dim. Comps are $1-$1.50/hr depending on the limit you are playing. Electronic board. Shufflers. I recognized some good dealers.

They were spreading mostly 4-8 last night. 1 to 2 8-16 games, a few 15-30's. Some LL stud and Omaha8 as well. $2 chips for the $8-16.

I am disappointed that they spread 3-chip 2-chip games, but given the desire to compete against Bellagio and the room manager coming from a 3-chip 2-chip house I'm not surprised. That's really unfortunate unless they then go to a $50-100 and a $100-200 instead of $80-160. There may well not be the demand for that many games at those limits though. One would think that Commerce migrating to solely 40-80 after spreading both 30-60 and 40-80 would be the model for other rooms, but I guess not.

Staff was very friendly, etc. but you'd expect nothing less on opening night.

So to recap:

Negatives:
Cramped
Spreading the wrong structure games in middle limits.

Positives:
Everything else unless you dislike dim lighting.

As for the rest of the Casino, it's extremely nice. Kind of like Bellagio on steroids. The inside of the mountain in the front is absolutely the bomb.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last night I went again after the Mirage 40-80 broke around 8:00. I brought the two remaining players from the broken game with me. When I got to Wynn there were two full 40-80s and when I left a few hours later they were about to spread a 3rd, and had 9 names on the 80-160 interest list. The games were comprised of a few unknowns, 70% Mirage players and the rest Bellagio players. I talked with every Mirage regular and we all agreed to keep supporting Wynn as long as they spread the 40. I also talked with the shift manager Mike and expressed my feelings regarding spreading 40 vs. 30. There were a ton of Mirage players at all limits. At one point, Dennis, the Mirage shift manager actually walked into the room to see where his games had gone.

Lighting at the tables is fine, it just seems dimmer from the outside. Plus, they spread the 40 up top and those 6 tables are spaced very comfortably. We also talked them into reducing the 40 games from 10 handed to 9 handed, which helps.

Only negative is that there were some dealers who may well have been dealing for the first time ever out of school. Considering the rumors of the large number of applicants, I am pretty amazed by this. Several didn't even know what "time collection" was, let alone how to make change. But everything else, especially management's willingness to listen to the players, is so superior to the Mirage, I'm willing to deal with a little inconvenience from the dealers. Though I do think it would be advisable for the room to do what the Nuggett did last year by putting the more experienced dealers in the top section rotation.

I do think that if they keep spreading 40-80 they will get a regular 80-160 going. 3 40-80's last night is dang near critical mass to just naturally produce an 80-160 game. If we get four 40's going tonight, I'd be shocked if there wasn't an 80.

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$2 chips for the $8-16.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am surprised that I am the first one to point out the best thing about Clark's post... a 4 chip small bet - 8chip big bet structure is GREAT for action. The pots will be huge, the chip stacks will be huge, and the gamblers will flock to this game. I predict this game will be a huge success for the Wynn, I am happy to see them experimenting by thinking outside the traditional Vegas box. For those of you who have been following another thread here in the B&M forum, recently the Trop in AC just did the same by using $2.50 pink chips in their newly revived 10/20 game.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Love the 4-chip games at CP. Bets are also easier to make in little piles of 4 or 8 chips. I'd hate to watch some Vegas drunk trying to 3-bet the flop while figuring out how many chips of each type he'd need (never mind, I'd LOVE to see that).

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

Can you explain why you dislike the 2 chhip 3 chip blind structure in the middle limits?

Re: Update
 

"We also talked them into reducing the 40 games from 10 handed to 9 handed, which helps."

Would be interested to hear if this becomes policy and not "by request"...

Re: Wynn Poker Room - A Short Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain why you dislike the 2 chhip 3 chip blind structure in the middle limits?

[/ QUOTE ]

also why do you call it 3-chip 2-chip, rather than 2-chip 3-chip? I don't think I've heard it said that way before... please school me!

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]