Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Hi all,

I'd like to test out a little theory of mine that there is an inverse relationship between W$SD (won $ at showdown) and W$WSF (win $ when seeing flop).

Please do the following if you have a moment:

* Make sure that you have at least 20,000 tracked hands and a win rate of at least 1.0 BB/100. Please also indicate what limits you're playing. You should not actually post your win rate.
* Filter your database such that you're only looking at hands with at least 7 players to the table. This can easily be done under Pokertracker using the 'Position Stats' tab.
* This is LIMIT hold 'em only, please.
* Post your W$WSF and W$SD numbers in this thread.


thanks!

-Nate

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

heh, my 20k hand break even streak notwithstanding I still qualify under your conditions.

49k hands total this year, 45k with 7 or more players at the table.

W$WSF = 38.53
W$SD = 51.91

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Intereted in 6max stats at all? (The at least 7 players requirement throws a wrench in that)

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

[ QUOTE ]
Intereted in 6max stats at all? (The at least 7 players requirement throws a wrench in that)

[/ QUOTE ]

For purposes of this exercise it's probably best to exclude shorthanded play, since your W$WSF is pretty much always going to be higher in shorthanded games.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Since this is the general holdem forum, are you interested in stats for both limit and nl?

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since this is the general holdem forum, are you interested in stats for both limit and nl?

[/ QUOTE ]

Limit only; amended original post.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

40k hands at 3/6
W$WSF: 33.95%
W$SD: 54.14%

ALSO: WSD(33.93%)

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

30K hands at 1/2 W$WSF is at 30.37, and W$SD is at 54.41. not 90 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Only .50/1 and 1/2 stats because I dont have a big enough sample at 2/4

W$WSF is an abysmal 30.38
W$SD is 54.62

EDIT: ~38k hands

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

22k hands- w$wsf:28.74, w$sd:56.12

most of the hands (18k or so) are .50/1, rest are a mix of 1/2 & 2/4 (which hasn't been going so well).

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

1 am short a couple hundred hands but I'll give you the stats anyway

15/30 - 19,289 hands
W$WSF 34.21
W$SD 51.34

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Hi Nate,

I have many more than 20k hands as a winner but only 16k in PT. Playing 5/10 and 10/20, winning much more than you ask for, my W$SD = 53.08% and my W$WSF = 34.04%. VP$IP is just under 20, PFR = 8.5, and Agression is over 2.

Mark

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

28,000 hands of .5/1 and 1/2

W$WSF 29.21
W$SD 51.68

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

$3/$6

W$WSF:35.58%
W$SD: 51.81%

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Intereted in 6max stats at all?

nate- i made a post in the other thread. i have no idea how to inerpret any of the PT stats. like how do you identify bad runs of cards etc. since all i really have is SH stats, i was wondering if you could give me (us) an idea. possibly in the HUSH forum?

thanks
mike

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

I could probably do this for a dozen samples at various limits but here is my latest $3-6 database

94,098-Total Hands
87,843-Filtered for Hands between 7 and 10 Players
W$WSF-31.39%
W$SD-61.86%

btw
WSD-29.63%

I know these are funky numbers but they work for me.I also have very high Aggression Numbers on the Flop.What I'm trying to do is maintain or improve my winrate by slowing down a bit on the flop and perhaps going to showdown more without my winrate taking a hit.Being overly argessive on the flop means for most I would guess you are losing some value somewhere down the road-the turn and river.My aggression numbers are fine on the Turn but could be higher on the River.
I've tried to figure out ways to get my W$WSF higher but just investigating it now.
Here are my funked up post-flop aggression numbers:3.83-flop,2.68-turn and 1.75-river.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Over 35k hands at 2/4 with more than 7 players.

W$WSF = 32.33%
W$SD = 58.06%

-SmileyEH

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

[ QUOTE ]
Only .50/1 and 1/2 stats because I dont have a big enough sample at 2/4

W$WSF is an abysmal 30.38

[/ QUOTE ]
Expect this stat to be lower for you since .5/1 is much looser than higher limits.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

n/m

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

8,681 hands of 15/30
18,738 hands of 5/10
10,857 hands of 3/6

38,276 total hands, 36.48 W$WSF, 55.01 W$SD.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

So far it's looking like you're right at 2/4 and higher, but the micro limits seem to be skewing things. Since the game is so loose it seems like even high W$SD numbers still correspond fairly low W$WSF numbers.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

This year's $5/$10 stats (I can't believe I'm winning with these as I've seen so many beats at the end I can't believe it - seems like I never drag the pot)

37K hands W$WSF 33.7 - W$SD 52.51

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

This year:

78k hands with 7 or more players 15/30 and up:
42 w$wsf
38 wtSD
57 W$SD

I've ran good this year.

From the whole DB:
150,000 hands
w$wsf: 39.6
wtsd 37
w$sd 56

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

[ QUOTE ]
w$wsf: 39.6

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm almost 10 points lower than this, anyone know what that means? sample size 30K hands at 1/2.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
w$wsf: 39.6

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm almost 10 points lower than this, anyone know what that means? sample size 30K hands at 1/2.

[/ QUOTE ]

It means you aren't winning as often as he is when you are seeing flops (i.e. playing a hand).

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

i know what its definition is. i'm wondering if theres a simple explanation for its cause, or if it means i have a helluva lotta holes in my game.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

[ QUOTE ]
i know what its definition is. i'm wondering if theres a simple explanation for its cause, or if it means i have a helluva lotta holes in my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some is running bad, some is not being as good.

-SmileyEH

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

I also play in games where players fold more than your players postflop. That's gotta account for something.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

28,602 hands with at least 7 players at 1/2.
W$WSF: 31.97
W$SD: 57.83

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also play in games where players fold more than your players postflop. That's gotta account for something.

[/ QUOTE ]

makes sense. in the micro FAQ, btspider said the typical micro players W$WSF was 28-32%.

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

76k hands of 15/30:

W$WSF 36.34
W$SD 53.11
Went to SD 35.8

There is an inverse relationship in my own stats if I filter out my last 30k hands.
W$WSF W$@SD
36.98 51.75 My stats from the 46k before that were
35.70 54.40

The only explanition for that in my case is that my turn bet%, and turn aggression has been higher in my newer hands. So I guess it makes sense that my W$WSF is higher since i've been winning more pots by betting the turn, and so a lot of the hands that i would have had a better chance to win a SD against have been folded. Also, my increased aggression I believe causes some players to take more "shots" at me with turn raises... so I'm forced to call down in spots where I know my win% will be low at the SD, but with the pot size I still need to call down after a turn raise, even if I'll only win 30% of the time

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

Hm, my W$SD bigger than everyone else so far. That a sign of folding too much?

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

27K hands @ 2/4 -
29.42% W$SF
57.60% W$SD

44K hands @ 1/2 -
28.38% W$SF
58.13% W$SD

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

20k at mostly .05/.1 and .5/1

W$SD: 49.97
W$WSF: 27.77

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

3/6, 23k hands, W$WSF=35.27, W$SD=53.5

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

$2/4 50,605 hands W$WSF 30.59 W$@SD 53.95

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

This year only. 15/30 134K hands.

W$WSF% 34.71
W$SD 56.22

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

15/30 and higher, filtered for 7 players+

w$SD = 55.13
W$WSF = 38.03

edited to add VPIP: 20.5

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

43k hands, mostly 2/4 & 3/6

W$SD = 51.53
W$WSF = 36.43

Re: Call for Stats: W$SD, W$WSF
 

61k hands...half 2/4 half 3/6

W$WSF is 33.5
W$ASD is 52.19

Great posts today Nate.