JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

have some datamined hands on villain, but haven't played with him before. stats are healthy, like 19/8/3 or so...
i am mostly thinking about river play, flop and turn is fine i think. if someone wants to correct me please do so...

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

Hero ($380)
SB ($170.4)
BB ($365)
UTG ($410.5)
UTG+1 ($525.4)
MP1 ($388)
MP2 ($379.02)
MP3 ($631.85)
CO ($415)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $4, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $18</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $14.

Flop: ($42) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($42) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $90</font>, UTG+1 calls $60.

River: ($222) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333"> Hero?

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

i think you are definitely ahead in the hand, and you need to try to get more money in the pot.

the problem i think that there is a strong chance villian has nothing at all here and won't pay you off.

had he had KQc on the flop and caught running trips, i think he makes a small block/value bet on the river. i don't think a flopped set would risk the check-behind on board pairing river and go for a check-raise. so i think you are good.

now how to go about getting money from a busted draw/no hand?

if the player is capable of bluff-c/ring a river scare card when faced with a huge bet, go ahead and throw out a 1/2 pot bet, but only if willing to call if he pushes. if not just check behind.

who knows, maybe he can make a crying call if he had 1010, missed a flop-checkraise, and then was scared of the action.

weird spot, but i don't think you are making much more money.

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

I think a set is reraising the turn on this board, so you are almost certainly ahead. He probably has a hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in which case you won't get any more out of him. Might be worth throwing out $80 on the river, tempting him to call with a weak holding, but more importantly I'd want him to fold as I don't want him to see what kind of hands I am raising on the button otherwise he might start taking shots preflop.

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

I bet the flop, I raise the turn, and I move in on the river.

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

Whats with the preflop raise? Just switching it up because of your TAG image or do you always raise J10o pf?

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

Have been known to lag it up on the button... Most often the hands are suited connectors. I rarely raise JToff.

Results
 

I bet 170, he checkraised all in, I called and got shown deuces full.

Re: Results
 

Why did you pay that off? that is a pretty clear fold imo, he is only doing that with hands you lose to

Re: Results
 

6 to 1 or so... maybe still a fold.

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

Why no flop bet? Builds the pot for you if they call and you hit, and if you miss you will have the option of taking a free card or firing again on the turn. Plus, since you have no showdown value at the moment, taking it down right here is also fine for you. I realize it is important to mix in flop checks after raising preflop, but unless villain c/rs a lot of flops I do not think this is a good spot for one.

-muz

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

I thought so at the time... but looking back at it I probably should have bet it. It felt like a flop that hit a lot of hands, but of course those hands aren't limps in EP for a tight player.

Re: JToff pp 400 - value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
have some datamined hands on villain, but haven't played with him before. stats are healthy, like 19/8/3 or so...
i am mostly thinking about river play, flop and turn is fine i think. if someone wants to correct me please do so...

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

Hero ($380)
SB ($170.4)
BB ($365)
UTG ($410.5)
UTG+1 ($525.4)
MP1 ($388)
MP2 ($379.02)
MP3 ($631.85)
CO ($415)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $4, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $18</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $14.

Flop: ($42) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($42) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $90</font>, UTG+1 calls $60.

River: ($222) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333"> Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooops, didn't see that the flop was checked around.

I'm wrong, you have a clear river value bet.

If you're going to bluff raise JTo, you should pretty much autobluff the flop. Since this flop actually hit you pretty hard, all the more reason to bet it.