JJ, I check my overpair
 

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

MP2, CO, and BB are very loose and passive
Button is a complete and utter lag, he seems to be raising any 2 paint cards, any A, any PP, etc. Postflop he's just as aggressive and only slows down when faced with aggression

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (5 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

I can dig the flop play. I'd bet as a default, but I think your line is plenty reasonable.

Let's talk about a river check raise.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

Why would you do that?

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously betting is my default line, but go read my description of the button again

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
obviously betting is my default line, but go read my description of the button again

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly -- if he's very aggressive postflop, I would think there's a good chance he'd raise a flop bet from you, trapping the field for an extra bet. Wouldn't that be a good thing? Or were you going for a checkraise to try to knock people out? I think we just have differnt ideas as to how to use the button player, and I don't understand yet what result you were trying for.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

whats up with the flop check? hoping the aggressive button would bet so you could check raise? well imo a player that aggressive would have bet top pair so i dont think you have to worry about the T pairing on the turn. i would probably lead the river and call a raise.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

Given your description of button, I don't think going for the check/raise is a bad idea. I'd usually bet but this line has merit. On the other hand, I don't think there's any chance an utter lag checks a T. I think Evan's right that you're good here on the river enough to check/raise. 3-betting the turn isn't a bad option either.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

On the flop I would still bet I think and hope the donk raised so that I could 3-bet and face everyone with 2 cold that way. Not quite as slick a pot protection move but it's less risky and still works. Don't hate your play though.

The way you played it I think you either need to 3-bet the turn or checkraise the river.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

when was the last time you posted a hand where you didn't totally eff it up?

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

Going for a flop checkraise seems like a good idea to me, under the circumstances.

If Button quite likely either has nothing on the river or has something like T2s that he slowplayed on the flop, then I'm thinking check-calling is better than checkraising on the river.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
when was the last time you posted a hand where you didn't totally eff it up?

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't remember the last time i even posted a hand. also, what would be the point of posting a hand i played perfectly?

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

Given your description, button doesn't have a better hand than you. Why not make another bet or two off of the fool?

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop I would still bet I think and hope the donk raised so that I could 3-bet and face everyone with 2 cold that way. Not quite as slick a pot protection move but it's less risky and still works. Don't hate your play though.

[/ QUOTE ]

honestly, i couldn't tell you which line i think is better. i figured button wouldn't raise the field unless he had at least a decent pair or any kind of draw. however, i figured if it got checked to him he'd try and steal the pot. betting out does guarantee money gets in the pot, though.

i'll post my thoughts on the turn/river when i post the results.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

I think your better line is to bet and hope he raises the flop for your value then. You'd then get the choice to gp with a smooth call looking for overcalls (higher variance) or 3-betting to clear the field (lower variance).

I think you can either bet or CR the river. I think I like bet because I can't fold to a 3-bet.

- Jim

Results and thoughts
 

Although the button was really laggy I don't think he's raising the whole field on the flop unless he's got at least a decent pair or a draw. I did think if it got checked to him he'd take a stab at the pot. I figured it'd be the best way to protect my hand.

When button checks through on the flop I'm pretty certain he has absolutely nothing so when he raises an essentially blank turn he's most likely on a pure bluff. Since he's almost always raising any 2 paint and any Ace PF, he most likely has 3 or less outs to catch up and I don't mind giving up a 3-bet in order to let him bluff the river. If I 3-bet the turn he's likely to fold right there, which I don't exactly want. The only thing is, I forgot to c/r the river in case the 9 hit him or he feels like paying me off with K high or something.

He had J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for the rivered OESFD

Re: Results and thoughts
 

[ QUOTE ]
He had J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for the rivered OESFD

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it.

Re: JJ, I check my overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can dig the flop play. I'd bet as a default, but I think your line is plenty reasonable.

Let's talk about a river check raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This I like. He's betting a 10 on the flop.