Game selection?
 

I'll start by saying this is my absolute first poker post ever, on any forum. I've been lurking around 2+2 for about a month and have found the content to be helpful for the most part. So my newbie question is this. What games/limits should I be playing? I made my first $100 deposit at Party in February and have grown that to about $1500 on the $25Nl tables. Most of that I've taken out for bills and what not so I don't have a very big bankroll. I normally keep about $150 in my account and that tends to be enough for me to withdraw every other week and not have to reload. The reason I'm asking about different limits is because I eventually want to move up to higher stakes without the possibility of going broke. No limit is nuts. I know this. But at these stakes and with these players it's been profitable for someone with some decent knowledge of the game like myself. Should I switch to limit? At what limits can I sustain a decent monthly profit ($400-$500) and not have to have a $5k bankroll? Am I an idiot? I am not going to proofread this post because my thoughts are all over the place and I want the post to come across that way as well. Hopefully I've asked my question clear enough for some decent responses. I'm sure there are details I've left out so feel free to ask away. ina nutshell: I want to be a better player : I want to make money playing poker (side income) : I am intelligent and have the patience and determination to do so : what games and limits should I play?

Re: Game selection?
 

linky

there are many factors involved in maintaining a bankroll. 150$ is not nearly enough for 25$NL- the consensus here is that one needs about 20 buy-ins (or 500$ in your case) to maintain a bankroll that won't be busted by a bad run of luck. If you don't mind losing your $$$ and re-depositing, one can play safely with much less, but i still wouldn't reccomend it.

I play limit now, but when i was playing almost exclusivly NL, i wouldn't be comfortable playing with less than 20 buy ins in the bank. losing 1/6 or more of your BR on one bad beat can be rough.

I switched to limit when i realized that I could play multiple tables more easily than at NL. a standard limit bankroll is 300 big bets (that is, for 2/4 limit, one should maintain a 1200$ BR).

wether you play limit or NL, you shuld definitly be playing for bonuses most or all of the time, they will reduce your chance of busting or add some profit...

GL

Re: Game selection?
 

thanks b. another question. why is it easier to play multi tables when playing limit as opposed to no limit?

Re: Game selection?
 

[ QUOTE ]
thanks b. another question. why is it easier to play multi tables when playing limit as opposed to no limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

The magnitude of mistake you can make in NL is much greater than in a limit game. A mistake in a limit game might cost you a few BB, while a mistake in a NL game could cost you your stack.

Re: Game selection?
 

"The magnitude of mistake you can make in NL is much greater than in a limit game. A mistake in a limit game might cost you a few BB, while a mistake in a NL game could cost you your stack."

it depends on the stakes one is playing for:
at 25$NL, you're looking at a big mistake costing 25$. at 1/2 limit, a mistake, big or small, generally only costs you a few dollars. Neither is a big deal in the grand scheme of poker, and one stops making the mistakes very quickly when they start costing $$$, and don't forget thet your opponents are making mistakes, too, which offsets this a bit.


Here are my reasons for Limit being easier:

A: easier to play on autopilot
B: don't have to select bet size (which tkes time and concentration- this saves a lot of headaches. sometimes sites have "bet the pot" buttons. i love them)
C: one generally plays fewer hands in limit (or at least i do- i play shorthanded, mostly, and get to muck the low suited cards, trash from the blinds, etc- hands that i normally play in NL)

Re: Game selection?
 

so would I be going down the wrong path if I a) read Small Stakes Hold'em by Miller, Sklansky, and Malmuth b) get poker tracker c) start off playing .50/1 d) play ?? hands then evaluate my play e) if doing well?? move up in limits

what kind of profit can I expect on a monthly basis if I'm "good" and win fairly consistently? At lower levels I mean. Like I mentioned before I've been able to make approx. $400 a month playing the $25NL tables and would like to continue making atleast that if possible.

Re: Game selection?
 

as far as limit goes, a good player can expect to make about 4BB/100 (four big bets per 100 hands played, or about 3$/hr per table of .50/1- playing 4 tables, and taking advantage of an avarage of 300$ in reload bonuses every month, playing about 40 hours, shouldn't be too dificult to make an avarage of 500$/month.

NL 25$ has about the same potential.

keep in mind that it's easier, more efficient, and much safer to be bonus whoring for most of your profit. I would reccomend keeping at least half of your profits in your BR each month (better yet, all of it, but that's hard), and when you have 300BB (big bets, in your case that would be 600$) move up to the next limit- 1/2.

Re: Game selection?
 

I'm a beginner myself, but will take a stab at giving some advice.

If you are going to stay at $25NL, I wouldn't read SSH. I'd say it's mostly a limit book. Although I'm sure some of the principles in it would apply for NL, it would probably be best to read some other books out there. This is just my opinion though. Maybe SuperSystem would be a better option. Or HEPFAP. I'm not sure which books contain a lot of NL advice since I mainly stick to limit right now.

Also, if you read SSHE, it's perfect for .50/1 and similar games. I'm currently beating the microlimits using SSHEs guidelines, trying to build my BR up level by level. 100% of my profits so far are going back into my bankroll. But it's only like 5 bucks of profit so far, so it's really not even worth taking it out lol. Anyway, good luck! Sounds like you are on the right track, because you came here [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Game selection?
 

thanks for all the feedback, ecspecially yours b. a buddy of mine once "bonus whored" on the black jack sites but he used basic strategy and never lost any money. he simply broke even at the tables and pocketed all the bonuses. don't you have to be a decent player to bonus whore in poker? I mean what good is it to earn a $100 bonus if you lose $200 at the tables? am I missing something? I guess what I'm saying is it isn't fool proof...or is it?

Re: Game selection?
 

I had your experience or less when I picked up SSH, and found my way here. My experience playing low limits and bonus whoring has been great so far, and I'd definitely recommend it. You should have no trouble beating .50/1 to a level that will probably match or exceed your bonus money. If you need to keep taking money out of your bankroll, I'd recommend picking a small amount that you're confident you can exceed, and leaving the rest to build your bankroll... your bankroll is like an investment, so the more you leave in now, the more you get to take out later

Re: Game selection?
 

Well first off you can't break even playing basic strategy at blackjack. The house has an edge and you will lose money the longer you play. You can successfully bonus whore blackjack when the bonus you're given is larger than the house edge times the number of hands you're required to play to clear said bonus.

Poker is pretty much the same except instead of being guaranteed a losing long run, you can actually be a long term winner PLUS earn your bonus. Even if you are not a particularly good player as long as your winrate is not too negative your bonus will overcome your small loss as you improve. If you can play break even poker then you will earn the bonus as profit.

So yes, you need to be a "decent" player, but if you're not decent you're going to lose regardless so you might as well be earning a bonus while you lose to help cancel out your losses while you learn. It's good to be "paid" to learn. If you don't think you can learn to be at least break even then bonus whoring poker is a bad idea.

Re: Game selection?
 

thanks POV. makes sense. I feel like I'm bothering people but I'm gonna continue asking until I get told otherwise. How does bonus whoring work? Am I basicly going to be playing .50/1 at numerous sites reopening new accounts each time to take advantage of the deposit bonuses? how many sites do you guys play at once? can it be difficult to manage? do you track your playing somehow (other than poker tracker I mean)? is there a bonus whoring end all be all site to get me started? also, if you're playing at different sites all the time how do you build your roll? I mean do you have one "main" site or do you consider your bankroll to be all your online accounts added up? again I appreciate all the feedback and I look forward to taking you guys money in the future [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Game selection?
 

[ QUOTE ]
thanks POV. makes sense. I feel like I'm bothering people but I'm gonna continue asking until I get told otherwise. How does bonus whoring work?

[/ QUOTE ]

See the FAQ link below for pointers to bonus whoring information.

One of the nice things about the beginner's forum is, unless you just don't want to learn or troll just to bother people, you can't bother anyone here. This is a place to ask whatever question you might have.

Regards,

T

Beginner's Poker FAQ

Re: Game selection?
 

"In order to clear the bonus on a $500 deposit, you need to play 500 raked hands (5x). It works out to be about $8-10 per hour/per table."

can someone ellaborate on this? is he saying it's going to take about 10-13 hours of 5 tabling to clear the $100 bonus?

Re: Game selection?
 

it takes nowhere near that long to clear a bonus (at sites like party, empire, etc).

at the avarage .50/1 or 25$NL table, one can expect about 50 raked hands and hour- more if the game is shorthanded (6 max). that works out to about 20$/hr if one plays four tables at a time, or about 5$/hr/table. 4 tabling clears a "100$ 5x raked" bonus in about 5 hours.

at 1/2 6 max or 50$ NL (the games that most hardcore whores use to clear bonus, it's a bit faster, about 70 raked hands/hr, or about 7$/hr/table.

here's a link that shows the various clearance rates vs the various games. you should bookmark this site.

Re: Game selection?
 

your last post is pretty much the info I was after. only about 5 hours 4 tabling? holy sh!t have I been missing out! thanks to everyone for all the feedback.