5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Hey all,

I really don't get to play much anymore, thus the lack of recent hand posts, but here is a hand that one of my students played that I think is fairly interesting.

5/10 6-max online. Hero is new to the site; thus, nobody has any reads on each other. Hero has been playing for a few orbits; nothing noteworthy to this point. Two players limp, and Hero ($1500) limps on the button with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB folds, BB ($1800) checks. 4 to the flop, which comes:

8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB leads out for $30, limpers fold, Hero calls. $105 in the pot; turn comes:

T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero bets $70, BB check-raises to $200, Hero calls. $505 in the pot; river comes:

J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero checks.

I think that all streets might merit some discussion, but I find one to be particularly interesting... All comments greatly appreciated.

ML4L

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

I think I like $250 on the river and fold to a raise, but I doubt that will happen as I'm pretty sure you're ahead.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

you teach well. i play it the same on all streets. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

i raise the flop i dont know how good it is to take control of hand but i would of, i check the river also too many headaches if you bet i think

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey all,

I really don't get to play much anymore, thus the lack of recent hand posts, but here is a hand that one of my students played that I think is fairly interesting.

5/10 6-max online. Hero is new to the site; thus, nobody has any reads on each other. Hero has been playing for a few orbits; nothing noteworthy to this point. Two players limp, and Hero ($1500) limps on the button with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB folds, BB ($1800) checks. 4 to the flop, which comes:

8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB leads out for $30, limpers fold, Hero calls. $105 in the pot; turn comes:

T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero bets $70, BB check-raises to $200, Hero calls. $505 in the pot; river comes:

J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero checks.

I think that all streets might merit some discussion, but I find one to be particularly interesting... All comments greatly appreciated.

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like villian is trying to induce a bluff from a likely missed flush draw.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

I like the flop and turn a lot.

I was somewhat torn about a small value bet on the river, but Kane brings up an excellent point. I like it.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey all,

I really don't get to play much anymore, thus the lack of recent hand posts, but here is a hand that one of my students played that I think is fairly interesting.

5/10 6-max online. Hero is new to the site; thus, nobody has any reads on each other. Hero has been playing for a few orbits; nothing noteworthy to this point. Two players limp, and Hero ($1500) limps on the button with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB folds, BB ($1800) checks. 4 to the flop, which comes:

8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB leads out for $30, limpers fold, Hero calls. $105 in the pot; turn comes:

T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero bets $70, BB check-raises to $200, Hero calls. $505 in the pot; river comes:

J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero checks.

I think that all streets might merit some discussion, but I find one to be particularly interesting... All comments greatly appreciated.

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like villian is trying to induce a bluff from a likely missed flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly what i just told yeti.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

I don't like the line that the hero took on this hand.

Flop- I would raise to 90 sometimes, but other times I would just call. I would raise more often than call but believe either play is correct.

Turn- I would 3 bet here (to 500 - 650 straight) nearly every time. Playing against the BB who saw a free flop you can obviously be against any two. True, the villain may have 67 or a set but when he does it is nice to have those 13 outs to improve. I think that it is more common however that you will be against a smaller two pair or some kind of one pair+draw hand and against both you want to be raising.

River - Given the way that it panned out, I really don't like the check behind. With the action as it stands I have the villain on a weak 2 pair, a pair of 10s or 8s with a missed draw, or 67. I don't think that he would go for a double check raise with a set or 67 (although it is possible with the 67) but then again I don't think he would really be checking 2 pair here either (although it would make sense if he thought you would bet/raise him here and feared the same set/straight that you fear.) Because I don't think that he will call much with a 1 pair hand I would bet 300 on the end and fold to a raise. I think that he would call this with 2 pair (and maybe a set) but would raise with the straight. If he was ballsey enough to try a double check raise bluff then the pot is deservedly his.

How often will someone bluff a missed flush draw after they get check raised on the turn? I don't think that it is frequent enough for the villain to go for a double check-raise here.



-Steve

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Which would tend to mean that a value bet of hero's two-pair is in order, right? I don't get why so many people are in favor of the river check, not to mention the flop call.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Turn- I would 3 bet here (to 500 - 650 straight) nearly every time. Playing against the BB who saw a free flop you can obviously be against any two. True, the villain may have 67 or a set but when he does it is nice to have those 13 outs to improve. I think that it is more common however that you will be against a smaller two pair or some kind of one pair+draw hand and against both you want to be raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

chances of getting btm two or the like to call a turn 3 bet arent very good on that board.


and raising this flop is not a good play. your hand isnt that strong in a multiway pot and most likely needs to improve a good amount to win. i would hate to get reraise on that flop.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

You are assuming that 10-8 is ahead here which may very well not be the case. Betting at the river here will likely only get a call from an overpair or 54 whereas opening the betting again allows a set or the striaght to reraise and Hero would hate to face an all in call for another $500+ depending of size of value bet with 10-8 here after having put more $ in. In short very few hands he has beat are likely to call and hero can't stand a huge reraise so why open the door here?

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Ooh, this is a good one.

Flop: looks good. You have a nice pair+draw hand, but no nut outs, and you hate a flop 3-bet. Looks like a good time to call and play a small to medium-sized pot.

Turn: seems standard.

River: I agree, looks like he has a medium-strength made hand. He is happy to see it checked through, or is hoping a busted draw will bluff. He doesn't bet b/c the board is getting a little tricker for his bottom 2 (maybe you have JT, e.g.) and he doesn't want to get raised.

So... you bet! he calls with his 54 or 85 or whatever and you win. I think if he has a sure winner (a set or 67) he leads out. No one plays for a double c/r with their big hands like this, or makes a double c/r bluff with a busted draw. I bet 250 or 300 (and fold to a raise, of course).

-muz

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

I'd like to hear a lot more about the turn, personally, in these situations I find myself betting the turn a lot on a semi-bluff, more than I probably should...

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Really? 3-betting seems horrible to me. Villain will probably fold a smaller 2-pair and push with a set or the straight. You are getting nothing more if you are ahead (and villian is probably drawing thin), and you have 11-13 outs if you are behind... betting then calling the c/r seems like a no-brainer. What am I missing?

-muz

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

No, no, I'm not talking about the 3rd bet, I'm talking about making the first bet. In position, out of position, when I hit top 2 and the flush draw I almost always punch it, but I'm beginning to think this isn't the best move...

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Hey Mike,

Flop: not very debatable. You don't want to lose your chance to play a MUCH bigger pot as a big favorite, which could happen if you raise on the flop.

Turn: Again, looks straightforward to me--you must bet, since after just the flop action, you're way ahead, as far as you know, and you want to build the pot. Since your opponent can see the possible straight in this unraised pot, the call (non-reraise) also seems standard. I guess it's en vogue on this forum to push here, but I usually wouldn't. I don't love my made hand at this point. You do a lot better in the long run by letting him keep the lead here, I think.

River: Not too debatable either, IMO, since the size of bet you can probably get him to call with a worse hand is probably not worth the risk of getting raised.

Which street was of the most interest to you?

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

if he gets raised on the river he must have the best hand, no one c/r 3 times ina row iwth a good hand. if he gets called and losses so what, that own't happen, he'll get called on the river and win.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he gets raised on the river he must have the best hand, no one c/r 3 times ina row iwth a good hand. if he gets called and losses so what, that own't happen, he'll get called on the river and win.

[/ QUOTE ]

A Check-raise on the river would certainly reek of a desperation bluff.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he gets raised on the river he must have the best hand, no one c/r 3 times ina row iwth a good hand. if he gets called and losses so what, that own't happen, he'll get called on the river and win.

[/ QUOTE ]

From Villians perspective Hero is holding a flush draw here a large percentage of the time. He is holding a set here almost zero persent, and two pair seems strangly unlikely.

So if Villian has a straight or a set, he can lead, hoping to get called by what exactly? Or check it to Hero and let him bluff at it?

If you are gonna bet this river, you should have raised the turn.

I like Mike's play all the way.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he gets raised on the river he must have the best hand, no one c/r 3 times ina row iwth a good hand. if he gets called and losses so what, that own't happen, he'll get called on the river and win.

[/ QUOTE ]

A Check-raise on the river would certainly reek of a desperation bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who check-raise bluffs this river? If Villian wanted to bluff hed lead out at you. If he check raises it means you just got played.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Hi bruiser,

[ QUOTE ]
if he gets raised on the river he must have the best hand, no one c/r 3 times ina row iwth a good hand. if he gets called and losses so what, that own't happen, he'll get called on the river and win.


[/ QUOTE ]

Villain didn't check-raise the flop, so it's not a triple. He could very easily get called and lose, since a small set would have to give Hero very little credit to value bet the river. Villain has clearly represented at least 2 pair. And, 2 pair won't call a value bet here, unless it's very small (<$150). So I agree that he's ahead a lot of the time, but he's definitely not a favorite when called, and obviously nothing better will fold to a moderate bet.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero very little credit to value bet the river. Villain has clearly represented at least 2 pair. And, 2 pair won't call a value bet here, unless it's very small (<$150). So I agree that he's ahead a lot of the time, but he's definitely not a favorite when called, and obviously nothing better will fold to a moderate bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would two pair only call a small value bet on the river? You are saying conflicting things, you (along with many other replies to this thread) keep saying that the villain will put the hero on a busted flush draw. But then you say that he will fold two pair (eventhough the hero most likely has a busted draw) unless the value bet is strong. In addition, the argument is being made that the villain would check raise the river (why bluff a hand he can beat?) if the hero bets. I am definitely in the minority with how I would play this hand so one of the *experts* please explain these apparent incongruencies of thought.

-Steve

-Steve

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

I feel like a value bet in this case would be pretty thin, but I think there is perhaps a case for it. if villian flopped a straight it is natural for him to lead the river, he has the effective nuts and hero clearly has enough of a hand to call a reasonable bet (since he called the turn). so while we can't rule out a straight I feel it is more unlikely.

villian's check feels like a combination of inducing a bluff and a "ok, I give up, wtf do you have?" small two pair check. he could make this check with a set, but he could also make it with two small pair and that hand is more likely from a raw card combinations perspective.

I think checking is ok, but if opponent is somewhat straightforward I think there's a strong case for a small value bet here.

--turnipmonster

My Thoughts
 

Hey all,

Thanks for the replies. Here are some of my thoughts:

Preflop: Straightforward. With a read on the limpers, a raise might be profitable, but limp is the default.

Flop: I thought that more people would advocate raising here. I personally like the call. My student thought that the bet into the field here marked at least top pair (I agree), so he was likely behind at this point. Thus, I don't like a raise, as it gives Villain an opportunity to blow Hero off a decent hand with outs that Hero is not committed to.

Turn: Bet here is obvious. So is the call of the check-raise; as many have pointed out, a reraise will blow worse hands out of the water and not fold out better hands.

River: This is the street that I think is the most interesting. It is clear that Villain has a strong hand here and has checked the river to try to induce a bet from a missed flush draw. As KKF pointed out, Villain knows that a straight/set for Hero are very unlikely given his line to this point. But, the thing that I think is so interesting is that Villain might be doing this with a worse hand than Hero's. Villain was the big blind, so we can't rule out hands like 85 and 84. The other key is the fact that Hero can safely fold to a check-raise here. Villain would have to be a lunatic to try to check-raise bluff rather than lead bluff if he had no hand. So, since we never have to worry about incorrectly folding to a check-raise and since, in my opinion, Villain is calling with any hand that he has here, the only thing to decide is whether Hero has the best hand more than 50% of the time here. I told the student that, if I were at the table, I would have checked behind. But, after giving it some thought, I started to think that a bet might be good here. And, I disagree that it should be a small bet; I would really try to sell the missed flush draw. If I were to bet, it would be almost full pot.

So, the question is, do people think that Villain will hold two smaller pair here often enough to make a bet correct? Would Villain check-raise the turn with those hands? Would Villain lead the flop with those hands? I really can't decide, which is why I posted the hand. If I weren't so busy/lazy, I'd do the math on his hand distribution here and have a pretty good answer...

It sounds like most people think that Villain will have a better hand more than half the time, thus making the check the correct play?

Anyway, I'd love to hear more opinions. I'll give the results tomorrow. Thanks again.

Mike

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like a value bet in this case would be pretty thin, but I think there is perhaps a case for it. if villian flopped a straight it is natural for him to lead the river, he has the effective nuts and hero clearly has enough of a hand to call a reasonable bet (since he called the turn). so while we can't rule out a straight I feel it is more unlikely.

villian's check feels like a combination of inducing a bluff and a "ok, I give up, wtf do you have?" small two pair check. he could make this check with a set, but he could also make it with two small pair and that hand is more likely from a raw card combinations perspective.

I think checking is ok, but if opponent is somewhat straightforward I think there's a strong case for a small value bet here.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

u are the best NL poster on this site, consistently.

Re: My Thoughts
 

[ QUOTE ]
And, I disagree that it should be a small bet; I would really try to sell the missed flush draw. If I were to bet, it would be almost full pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very, very interesting. You continuously make me think about hands differently, and I love it.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

A lot of people have said villian is obviously inducing a bluff from the missed flush draw here, but i don't know, if the villian is at that level of thought then it seems strange he'd risk a free card on the turn.

I guess i agree if no one in these games ever checks the turn with a flush draw here.

As for the river, while i agree he could be doing it with a worse hand i don't think you have a value bet.

Lets say we take case 1. In which villian would do this with all the 2 pairs and sets and the straight. Then it's probably close, and that's the best case for us.

Case 2. He's not a very good thinking player and he's just doing a 'fun' line with a set/straight only. I think players who get fancy are much more likely to do it with only a set rather than two pair.

Case 3. He's a somewhat decent thinking yet a player who thinks 45 bottom two pair is not a hand to get fancy with as he thinks it's strength in this situation is a lot worse than a set.

I think a lot of different player types match this play and we are only hitting value against one of them.

edit: although i do agree with turnipmonster with the '"ok, I give up, wtf do you have?" small two pair check.' comment, so this brings it very very close.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

In this particular spot, you've entered the pot volountarily, the BB gets stuck with his hand and can realy have almost anything.

He leads the flop for a pot size bet, I'm figuring straight draw, flush draw or both, perhaps 77, 66. Perhaps just two big overcards.

Anyway, the check raise on the turn is weakish. Perhaps to trying to take the pot cause he hit a 10 or picked up more outs. I'm thinking perhaps 96, 97. He's perhaps thinking you have 8 with kicker, perhaps w/flush draw in which case he should know that raise isn't going to budge you on the turn.

The river check, I don't think is to induce a bet. I think he wants a showdown with a weak hand or a busted draw himself. 87, 86 type hand. He's really weak so I don't think a value bet here is going to work, and if your wrong, you can get played back at and never see the showdown. I check right along with him.

Re: My Thoughts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey all,

Thanks for the replies. Here are some of my thoughts:

Preflop: Straightforward. With a read on the limpers, a raise might be profitable, but limp is the default.

Flop: I thought that more people would advocate raising here. I personally like the call. My student thought that the bet into the field here marked at least top pair (I agree), so he was likely behind at this point. Thus, I don't like a raise, as it gives Villain an opportunity to blow Hero off a decent hand with outs that Hero is not committed to.

Turn: Bet here is obvious. So is the call of the check-raise; as many have pointed out, a reraise will blow worse hands out of the water and not fold out better hands.

River: This is the street that I think is the most interesting. It is clear that Villain has a strong hand here and has checked the river to try to induce a bet from a missed flush draw. As KKF pointed out, Villain knows that a straight/set for Hero are very unlikely given his line to this point. But, the thing that I think is so interesting is that Villain might be doing this with a worse hand than Hero's. Villain was the big blind, so we can't rule out hands like 85 and 84. The other key is the fact that Hero can safely fold to a check-raise here. Villain would have to be a lunatic to try to check-raise bluff rather than lead bluff if he had no hand. So, since we never have to worry about incorrectly folding to a check-raise and since, in my opinion, Villain is calling with any hand that he has here, the only thing to decide is whether Hero has the best hand more than 50% of the time here. I told the student that, if I were at the table, I would have checked behind. But, after giving it some thought, I started to think that a bet might be good here. And, I disagree that it should be a small bet; I would really try to sell the missed flush draw. If I were to bet, it would be almost full pot.

So, the question is, do people think that Villain will hold two smaller pair here often enough to make a bet correct? Would Villain check-raise the turn with those hands? Would Villain lead the flop with those hands? I really can't decide, which is why I posted the hand. If I weren't so busy/lazy, I'd do the math on his hand distribution here and have a pretty good answer...

It sounds like most people think that Villain will have a better hand more than half the time, thus making the check the correct play?

Anyway, I'd love to hear more opinions. I'll give the results tomorrow. Thanks again.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good post.

And looking back, that turn raise did seem too small to be either a straight or a set. If you are going for a turn check raise with either of those hands, I think you want to lock out your opponent. Id have made it closer to 275.

The most likely line is two pair trying to induce a bluff from a missed flush draw. How much to bet? Without any reads, I like about half the pot.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Bet the river and fold to a checkraise. How much to bet on the river depends on how much you bet on the river. I would probably bet $350-400.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the river and fold to a checkraise. How much to bet on the river depends on how much you bet on the river. I would probably bet $350-400.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think that jack adds enough protection to fold to a check raise on the river.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people have said villian is obviously inducing a bluff from the missed flush draw here, but i don't know, if the villian is at that level of thought then it seems strange he'd risk a free card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 'king of Shania' would never check-raise a set on the turn here...? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say we take case 1. In which villian would do this with all the 2 pairs and sets and the straight. Then it's probably close, and that's the best case for us.

Case 2. He's not a very good thinking player and he's just doing a 'fun' line with a set/straight only. I think players who get fancy are much more likely to do it with only a set rather than two pair.

Case 3. He's a somewhat decent thinking yet a player who thinks 45 bottom two pair is not a hand to get fancy with as he thinks it's strength in this situation is a lot worse than a set.

I think a lot of different player types match this play and we are only hitting value against one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is the issue that it all comes down to. If we assume that he is usually a 'case 1' player here, a bet is clearly in order. But, the more often that we encounter a 'case 2' or 'case 3' player, the worse a bet becomes...

Good post.

ML4L

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

yeah, add me to the list who changed their mind on ML4L's great post. the river does see to be a bet and fold to a raise. and i like 2/3 pot.

nice post mike.

(and yeah, yeti, you were right [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Hi Mike,

on the flop: this is a situation point - and to a lesser extent a style point. both calling and raising can maximize earn. e.g., against the weak take-a-shotters that sometimes populate late-night PP 5-10, i like to raise there. that way if i hit the flush they are much more likely to pay me off for two streets / all in. also, i often make a 2/3 pot bet if the turn is a blank and they check. but that bet works better against more experienced players. also, the weaker players get all excited when they hit a big hand and shut down to a raise then go for a checkraise right when they should fire.

against truly weak opponents who call way too much and too big, i call. might as well make the hand and shoot them in the nest.

against a typical better but not good 5-10 player, i like calling. when they check - which they do too often from out of position - you take the pot away. however it requires some heart as that is not the time for a half-pot bet.

against better competition i also like calling. then you've got him or her guessing, and there are a ton of scare cards. this works both if you have heart and if you don't.

all of these are probabilities: each has a different weighting vector with no coefficient greater than about 0.85 except against really weak players.



the river: hell yes i am betting that river. it's extraction time. think about how often you will get paid off vs how often you will lose or get blown off the hand by a bluff check-raise. if opponent is primed to go nuts, you might check. but you have a betting hand. trick is to bet enough to make it look real but maybe a bluff. you want to get paid but not get check-raised. also, you want to minimize losses when he's check-raising you with the goods. $325 is a nice number there, $275 if they need a little more encouragement. if they'll pay you off often bet more.

matt

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Which would tend to mean that a value bet of hero's two-pair is in order, right? I don't get why so many people are in favor of the river check, not to mention the flop call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the flop call is atrocious-I'm trying to keep the pot small with top pair crap kicker and I'll risk an overcard coming that most likely won't hit my opponent.
I agree though that the river check is suspect. As AZK noted, few players would check-raise the turn and then check-raise the river with the nuts, so the only thing that you could really worry about on the river if you bet is a check-call by a set that's trying to slow down after the turn call by hero. I say you're facing two-pair based on the action more often than anything else, and I would bet the river.

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

if ml4ls opponent here has a big hand a set or a straight or whatever or good two pair or whatever maybe the best play is checking it, but it takes heart to check a big hand on the river. he'd check one pair, maybe two pair but as the hand gets stronger it is harder for a person to check it on the river . i think this makes all of this guys strong hands less likely

Re: 5/10 Hand (Boring Title; Interesting Hand)
 

Everybody here respects your play, so I have to ask since I disagree with betting -- particularly a good amount, what to you put ML4's opponant on?

I'm thinking he's really weak and that a value type bet on the end will have to be relatively small, and may trigger a move, while a 2/3 size bet will pretty well much insure you against a move on the end, but no call either. Thus I see the risk / reward for such a bet rather slim.

Here\'s a Question
 

Say you reraise on the turn to $700.

What do you think villain does with 44/55 here?

Re: Here\'s a Question
 

he doesnt fold, if thats what you mean.

Re: Here\'s a Question
 

[ QUOTE ]
he doesnt fold, if thats what you mean.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I was just curious.