I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

Late in a Party SNG. We're down to 4 players. After a while, it's apparent that one of the players has been sitting out the whole time. It appears he's been disconnected or is just gone. The other three of us had been chatting away this entire time. The guy who was gone was extremely shortstacked yet somehow won 2-3 all-ins to stay afloat. One of the other guys was slowly bleeding chips and was in danger of not making the money.

After the guy who wasn't playing (player A) won another all-in to stay alive, it was clear another BB or two gone from Player B might end him. The other big stack told me to fold my SB to his BB to keep him afloat. It would have cost me very little to put him all in, and I actually had a hand I would do it with. But I folded.

This makes me sick. I'm not sure why I did what I did. Now I'm seeing monsters and have cashed out 2/3 of my BR from Party JUST IN CASE the guy who finally got knocked out reports us to Party. I'm not sure if he would have a case or anything, especially since I've never played with these guys before, but it still worries me.

Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Or is what I did as wrong as I'm afraid it is?

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

What you did was wrong. Why you would even consider this is beyond me.

That said, Party is not going to freeze your account or anything. If anything they'll revoke chat for a while.

Dont cheat and you wouldn't have to worry~

p.s. if this is april fools, I hate you ahead of time.

Nick

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

that would be a pretty lame April Fools' joke. More lame than anything I've seen on here.

And I agree, why I even considered it never mind did it, is beyond me. I haven't done anything remotely close to this ever. If I could, I'd give my winnings of the tournament to the guy, because I realize what a shitty thing it was.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

Although following the other players instructions to fold was ethicly questionable, it would be hard for anyone to prove that you are guilty of collusion, if you didn't reply to his request to fold or offer him any information. The player who told you to fold was clearly in the wrong. It is absolutely improper for him to tell others how to play while the hand is in progress. You should have made the play that you felt was best for you. It would be difficult to prove that you were colluding. You could have been planning to fold anyway. In the future, play your hand as you see fit and ignore other players who are trying to get you to collude. Obviously, the playere telling you to fold isn't too bright and maybe doesn't even realize that what he did is unethical. Anybody who is knowingly cheating would be stupid to do it using the chat window, giving Party a record of the collusion. Any deliberate colluder with a lick of sense would use another communication channel.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I could, I'd give my winnings of the tournament to the guy, because I realize what a shitty thing it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Goto 'My Account' and hit player to player transfer.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

When I am in the BB and dont want my BB stolen I type in I call any 2 any time. Is this wrong?

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I could, I'd give my winnings of the tournament to the guy, because I realize what a shitty thing it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Goto 'My Account' and hit player to player transfer.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to know the player's real name to do this.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

Something like this happened when I first started playing.

Exact same situation except no one was really short stacked, I just avoided clashing with the other two. Just seemed smart to me.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
When I am in the BB and dont want my BB stolen I type in I call any 2 any time. Is this wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the player asking him to fold was NOT in the BB. There were two short stacks, one not playing and the other in the BB. The other large stack told him to fold.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I am in the BB and dont want my BB stolen I type in I call any 2 any time. Is this wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the player asking him to fold was NOT in the BB. There were two short stacks, one not playing and the other in the BB. The other large stack told him to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im saying I say that in tourneys when I dont want my blind stolen.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I am in the BB and dont want my BB stolen I type in I call any 2 any time. Is this wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the player asking him to fold was NOT in the BB. There were two short stacks, one not playing and the other in the BB. The other large stack told him to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im saying I say that in tourneys when I dont want my blind stolen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it at all relevant to the current discussion?

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

sure, its not really ethical.. but i woulda done the same thing in a situation like this, i [censored] hate when people sitout like that just so they can finish in the money.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
sure, its not really ethical.. but i woulda done the same thing in a situation like this, i [censored] hate when people sitout like that just so they can finish in the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Suppose it's a borderline situation, very close to 0 EV and you don't know if it's +EV. I'll go ahead and argue then that it's correct to punish those who would reduce your edge against them by sitting out over those who allow you to outplay them on the flop.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

This seems like a bad idea on another account as well. top 3 in the money, so, you wait for the non playing seat to bust out and then all 3 of you are in the money, with third making practically nothing.

If you knock the live player out on the bubble, then the dead seat is an easy knock out in third for at least an easy second place finish, increasing your winnings a good percentage.

the live player actually has a chance to come back and beat you, even if it's not a good chance.

Ethically wrong as well.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

Unless you typed something like "ok Ill do that" to the guy then I dont really see the problem here. I mean you could just as easily have had 72o and not wanted to call the bet and folded. Plus its not like the guy sitting out was there to see any type of collusion and he has 0 possibility to actually prove it.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you typed something like "ok Ill do that" to the guy then I dont really see the problem here. I mean you could just as easily have had 72o and not wanted to call the bet and folded. Plus its not like the guy sitting out was there to see any type of collusion and he has 0 possibility to actually prove it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. You can press the fold button whenever the hell you feel like it.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly. You can press the fold button whenever the hell you feel like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing an SNG, I notice my friend is in it also. I pick up KK in EP. Suddenly I get an instant message from my buddy who is in LP "I've got Rockets!!!!". I did not request, nor desire this message. I do NOT want to collude.

Can I fold?

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[quote}Playing an SNG, I notice my friend is in it also. I pick up KK in EP. Suddenly I get an instant message from my buddy who is in LP "I've got Rockets!!!!". I did not request, nor desire this message. I do NOT want to collude.

Can I fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

This play will get your account frozen and confiscated quickly. All of the big sites have software in place to try and detect collusion. There is no situation that you are going to fold KK before the flop for 1 bet.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

the bigger question is why the hell you would fold your SB there. collusion is generally done when you have something to gain. the fact that the other guy was sitting out means you should be running the short stack over, since he has even more incentive than usual to try to fold into the money.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

See the flop as cheaply as possible, and bust him if you hit your set.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]

the live player actually has a chance to come back and beat you, even if it's not a good chance.

[/ QUOTE ]



Exactly.
You would have REALLY been pissed if you let him stay in the tourney and then he won the whole thing.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
sure, its not really ethical.. but i woulda done the same thing in a situation like this, i [censored] hate when people sitout like that just so they can finish in the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

SOP is to fold to the BB and play when the person sitting out is in the BB. It doesn't usually take long to eliminate the person sitting out.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
The other big stack told me to fold my SB to his BB to keep him afloat

[/ QUOTE ]

all the more reason to steal his blind.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

A colluder would not fold. A colluder would call and trap other players behind him and the person with aces. Then the aces and kings would reraise each other after the flop.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

You should be trying to knock out the guy that is still playing. You gave him a free chance to come back and finish higher in the money in than you. Take him out. Then let the afk guy finish 3rd, and go for first.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
A colluder would not fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is definitely colluding. Trapping is worse colluding, but a folder is a colluder therefore some colluders would fold if anyone would fold.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sure, its not really ethical.. but i woulda done the same thing in a situation like this, i [censored] hate when people sitout like that just so they can finish in the money.

[/ QUOTE ]



SOP is to fold to the BB and play when the person sitting out is in the BB. It doesn't usually take long to eliminate the person sitting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

SOP for suckers maybe.

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
The guy who was gone was extremely shortstacked yet somehow won 2-3 all-ins to stay afloat

[/ QUOTE ]

How does this work? Isn't his hand auto-folded after all his time is used? Or is this just another way that PS is superior to Party?

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy who was gone was extremely shortstacked yet somehow won 2-3 all-ins to stay afloat

[/ QUOTE ]

How does this work? Isn't his hand auto-folded after all his time is used? Or is this just another way that PS is superior to Party?

[/ QUOTE ]

When his stack gets down to less than the BB and he is in the BB (or less than the small blind and he is in the Sb) he is put all in instead of auto-folded. In other words he's allowed to auto-fold his stack away by sitting out but not allowed to bust out of the tourney that way. I believe party does the same thing.

--Zetack

Re: I think I colluded and now I\'m pissed
 

you should beat yourself.... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]


nah, you didn't do anything bad. As stated, no information about cards was exchanged. Maybe he had aces and wanted you to double him up!?!

Related ethical question
 

when there is someone sitting out who is being blinded away, do you think it's ethical to encourage remaining players to play quickly (in case the person returns)?

Re: Related ethical question
 

I'm not exactly sure of the ethics regarding that idea.

It does remind me of returning to the table on the PPM IV cruise after the first break. Our table was kind of in the back and it was pretty difficult for everyone to go hit the men's room during the 15-minute break.

We were friendly and chatting with the dealer, etc. When the director (maybe Matt Savage...but I think it was someone else) said to resume play the dealer didn't hear it (bad speakers in there) but me and the guy next to me (with a limit WSOP-bracelet to his name) cut him off mid-conservation and hurried him "Okay...That's it! Let's go!"

We only had 3 players there and there some blinds up for grabs and we wanted to get them before the other players returned.

Obviously telling the dealer "ok...he said to start dealing" is different than encouraging the players at your table to play faster though....just a situation that your question reminded me of.



I've done the opposite of your question though.
during speed (or regular too I suppose) tourneys I've been known to tell our table..or even other tables... that stalling is no longer going to help (because we're hand-for-hand and at the highest stakes level perhaps)....but that's not strategic...it's just from getting tired of waiting.