I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

It seems that this forum is nothing more than a cyber country club for a tight-knit group of losing players with <10% of membership actually having anything worthwhile or substantial (read: correct) to say about how to actually beat SNG's.

I propose that that <10% group get their own forum where poker knowledge, skills and experience will override familiarity, seniority and likability.

I propose that the first and only requirement for membership be to run members party handle through Prophecy, other players PT statistics or another reliable source and comeup with a skill rating for this player that is based upon FACT and ACTUAL RESULTS other than this de-facto pecking order that has been established in this forum.

A serious amount of improvement and poker education could be going on, but it is being lost on all this emotional static.



WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Interesting.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

"It seems that this forum is nothing more than a cyber country club for a tight-knit group of losing players"

Weird since all the regulars I see posting here seem to be winning players.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

[ QUOTE ]
I propose that that <10% group get their own forum where poker knowledge, skills and experience will override familiarity, seniority and likability.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Can a group of less than 10% ROI..... I was gonna say something about knowledge, skill and experience co-existing, but that would just be, well, ....do I have to say it?

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Why don't the good players just point out when the bad players post bad advice? I thought that was what this forum was for?

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

If we were all expert players, there would be no need for a forum in the first place. You're suggesting that only the "good" players debate with each other to improve. How do you define "good"? It can't be defined as winning players because marginally winning players are far from perfect and still make plenty of errors.

By your logic, you have no use for players who are worse than yourself. Extending that thought, players who are better than yourself have no use for you.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

The part about having your uptodate results in your signature sounds like a neat idea... that will never happen.
But it is good when someone offers their opinion on a hand even if its bad so long as someone comes around to correct them or offer their conflicting opinion. ITS THE POINT OF A FORUM.

If you're looking for a circle jerk, go somewhere else.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

[ QUOTE ]

I propose that the first and only requirement for membership be to run members party handle through Prophecy, other players PT statistics or another reliable source and comeup with a skill rating for this player that is based upon FACT and ACTUAL RESULTS other than this de-facto pecking order that has been established in this forum.


[/ QUOTE ]

If by Prophecy, what level or percentage would you think should be the cut off?

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Gaucho, if this is a joke post, I do find it very humorous...

[ QUOTE ]
this de-facto pecking order that has been established in this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the de-facto pecking order? How is it established? Oh, and just for shits and giggles, where do I rank (***gulp***,not very high I hope)?

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

'seem to be'

indeed

i invite you to pick five regulars (i like to call them 'lifers') and run their PP handles through Prophecy. See what you get. I'm not going to name any specific players, I'll let you decide which ones to test.

They say Prophecy is inaccurate, but anybody who has taken even the most elimentary statistics class knows that, so long as the sample is a random one, it can be used to generalize to the greater whole with a large enough percentage being sampled.


Neilsen for example samples less than 1% of US households and is able to generalize to the whole US within a couple of % points.

As an added note, my Prophecy stats are right on the money, as are two close friends'. The only thing off by any significant amount is the total tourneys played. They seem to miss 10-20%.


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

because the bad players are masked here as good players.

that is the problem.

the majority of people here that are 'respected' are quite bad poker players in practice.

people who live on this forum and post everr day and all day, are the ones who seem to get the most respect.

the real players are at the tables, making money off of these guys when they do decide to sit down.


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Those with the highest ROI aren't always the best teachers.
The best teachers don't always have the highest ROI.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Yes i realized this after I posted it.

I think that players who ar less than expert status should be able to participate but should be noted as such.

what the problem is in this forum is all of the people who people turn to for advice are less than winning players.

watch, i predict that there will be a few VERY LOUD and outspoken voices in this thread who rip my idea to shreds and call me all sorts of names, insult my character and all manner of other things.

i'd be willing to bet $100 that each of them is a losing player. this bet would have about a $75-$90 EV.


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

those with the highest ROI aren't always the best at teaching things in a nice, respectful, slow and patient way...but they are ultimately the people who know what to do in certain situations.

those who do things in a nice, respectful, slow and patient way aren't always the ones who know what to do in certain situations.


just like when i was in college:

the professors i preferred and loved where the ones who had the most detached view of the 'real world. there lessons have helped me only in that they have made me realize that idealism is a joke in a practical sense.


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

the opinions that are looked at as the right ones aren't usually that.

the people that present themselves as experts are largely not that in practice.

WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

i'd say they should be put in one of four categories.

A. Losing player
B. Break even/slight losing/slight winning player
C. Winning player
D. Dominates the game


Prophecy only breaks it down by ITM% so this would probably look like:

A: <28%ITM
B: 30%-35% ITM
C: 36%-39% ITM
D: 40%+ ITM



WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

It already exists. You just weren't invited.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

i don't want to make it personal. it will detract from the point.

those who are not in the pecking-order and should be know exactly what i mean.

those who are in the pecking-order and should not be are going to have a defensive reaction.

those who are not in the pecking order and should not be will either not care or will agree.

those who are in the pecking order and should be probably agree but would never admit it publicly.


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

[ QUOTE ]
It already exists. You just weren't invited.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that hard to believe with all the winning content he posts here...

oh wait, nevermind.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PLEASE...INVITE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO JOIN?????????????????



WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

[ QUOTE ]
watch, i predict that there will be a few VERY LOUD and outspoken voices in this thread who rip my idea to shreds and call me all sorts of names, insult my character and all manner of other things.

i'd be willing to bet $100 that each of them is a losing player. this bet would have about a $75-$90 EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I could rip your idea to shreads AND win $100 if I'm a winning player on pokerprophecy? That's a very tempting offer.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Don't worry, must have been clerical error. Just checked your PP info and it says you're a professional. how odd.

[ QUOTE ]
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PLEASE...INVITE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO JOIN?????????????????



WD

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

the principle was that if you did this, and you were a winning player...you would be a rare expception to the rule.


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

it does say that i am a professional.

that is also my thread.




that is exactly my point. that thread is the most beautiful description of what i'm talking about it is laughable. i'm not sure if you put that link there to stengthen my point or to weaken it...

WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

I'll bet my ITM beats Daliman and Gigabet. So I would recommend that people start listening to me more than to them.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Ok, I'll bite. Let's everybody whip out their Johnsons and wave them around.

I don't play under Irieguy much because I don't have rakeback. Here are my rakeback accounts:



Player stfu_donny
Games played 121
Wins 51 (42.15%)
Losses 70 (57.85%)
Average Buy-In $30
Players with better winning percentage 44673
Players with worse winning percentage 201576
$30 Table: 51 wins / 70 losses / 42.15% wins


Player Iriechicken
Games played 57
Wins 23 (40.35%)
Losses 34 (59.65%)
Average Buy-In $95.09
Players with better winning percentage 54207
Players with worse winning percentage 192042
$30 Table: 1 wins / 3 losses / 25% wins
$100 Table: 22 wins / 31 losses / 41.51% wins


I feel so good about myself now. I get to join a club started by a petty, dishonorable, tiny little man. I can't wait to start contributing.

Irieguy

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

I read ALL the advice on the One-table tournament thread. I don't care where a person is in your imaginary "pecking order".

If it's good advice I try it out and see if it helps my game. If it's bad advice I ignore it.

Much of the advice has helped me and I don't need to see a person's Poker Prophecy whatever to tell me whether I can consider a person's input to be valid.

I don't care about my own or anyone else's popularity ranking on 2+2. I care about winning money at poker.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

"The only thing off by any significant amount is the total tourneys played"

They have 60% of mine. I ran gauchofish through (you?), nice record at the $33s. Blindthief (you right?) didn't do so well at higher levels [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
You're not gauchoholic are something are you? Seen that one at the $33s and $55s, ran out of trial searches though.

"i invite you to pick five regulars (i like to call them 'lifers') and run their PP handles through Prophecy."

I'm outa trials for the moment. I checked a few previously and only one had an unimpressive record. This poster is easily one of the most knowledgable guys here, and it only caught half of his games anyway (basically only caught a 'bad run').

Why don't you point out 5 regulars you think are losers?

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

Here's the stats from my citanul account, the one I feel like sharing the name of, and also one that I haven't exactly played a ton of games on.

Player citanul
Games played 48
Wins 25 (52.08%)
Losses 23 (47.92%)
Average Buy-In $162.5
Players with better winning percentage 19471
Players with worse winning percentage 226778
$200 Table: 5 wins / 10 losses / 33.33% wins
$50 Table: 7 wins / 7 losses / 50% wins
$100 Table: 10 wins / 6 losses / 62.5% wins
$1000 Table: 2 wins / 0 losses / 100% wins
$500 Table: 1 wins / 0 losses / 100% wins

man i like small sample sizes. and man, did i stink it up at 200s in there. fortunately, i got a lot of 1sts in that set. also note: i've never bought in directly to a step 5. so to play a 1000, i'd have to have played a 500. so #100s played > #500s played is a bit uh, wrong.

to gaucho: i'll take your bet because really, i don't think that anyone is going to care enough to make "lots of responses" to your thread. then again, you'd probably just bump your thread every day for the rest of time and make several new accounts in order to satisfy your theory, so whatever, i don't care.

fwiw, i'm a winning player, i just don't think i've seen you add anything of value to this forum.

citanul

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm outa trials for the moment. I checked a few previously and only one had an unimpressive record. This poster is easily one of the most knowledgable guys here, and it only caught half of his games anyway (basically only caught a 'bad run').

Why don't you point out 5 regulars you think are losers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the damn thing really doesn't catch close to all of the games. Sucks (or does it?) for the poster who had a bad run.

I'd be intrigued by Gaucho's choices of 5 "regulars" who are very vocal advice givers that are losing players.

citanul

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

awesome...i'm glad somebody voluntarily put their stats up:

ok so mixed in with your Irieguy account...the three you've told us about total to:

262 tourneys and 92 ITM's...35% ITM

Not bad. You just meet the cutoff for 'winning player'...though lose a couple tourneys and you'll be down in 'break-even, slightly winning/slightly losing player'...though you will be on the upside of the group.



WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

if i point them out...this will thread will get out of control. i'm not looking to make personal attacks, i'm making a critique of the culture.

no i'm not gauchoholic...though i'm sure we share the same university hehe

i don't use GauchoFish much anymore, but i had a nice run while i played on it.


I WOULD HIGHLY RECCOMEND FORKING OVER THE $30 FOR PROPHECY...if it grabs 60% thats a ton, so long as they are random...just seeing that a guy has 300 tourneys in that thing is enough to avoid crucial early tourney all-in calls.
it also has paid for itself, in my case, many times over for this very reason.



WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

"Not bad. You just meet the cutoff for 'winning player'"

Anyone else find this pretty funny?

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not looking to make personal attacks

[/ QUOTE ]

L
O
L

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

there could be a shared database of poster's PT logs then. Or some other way. surely there is a talented coder among us who could easily coordinate PT accounts.

the thing is, people who are losing players know they are such if they keep logs. just having that requirement, some form of verification, would keep the losers from even applying.


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

FWIW, I for one am not really here to impress anyone or make friends etc...I have all of that in my real life. But...I do appreciate all of the advice given, even what I feel to be, "bad advice" sometimes (whatever that means)....If a disagree with the line someone is taking, it gives me a chance to rebut and explain WHY I think theyre wrong, and WHAT I feel is the better way to play that hand...If I am able to articulate my own thought processes, it helps me just as much if not more than the person to whom I am replying. If everyone was right or "good" on this forum, there would be a lot less learning IMO...I like when people ask stupid questions and I like when people take (what I feel) to be the worst line in a hand...w/o that, there's no chance for discussion...we would just be a bunch of bobble heads.

I dont care about someone's credentials to benefit from what they say...I have enough confidence in my own poker mind to be able to think for myself.

This is a dumb thread...and this is from someone who kept an open mind to you during your other debacle...

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

"just seeing that a guy has 300 tourneys in that thing is enough to avoid crucial early tourney all-in calls."

This is the only stat that I'd think is useful. #sngs played shows indicates their experience level. 5 sngs played??? Very inexperienced and probally a fish. A few hundred?? A serious player who is probally pretty decent.

I wouldn't trust the ITM stats though.

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

[ QUOTE ]


...though lose a couple tourneys and you'll be down in 'break-even, slightly winning/slightly losing player

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish the IRS would tax me as though I was only a slightly winning player.

Even with write-offs for backees, they sure want a lot of money.

Irieguy

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

thanks for the input

well stated


WD

Re: I PROPOSE A NEW FORUM: WINNING SNG PLAYERS
 

why would u not trust the ITM stats???

if its a large enough sample it will even out. when you see somebody with 300 tourneys on there, i think, you can have a pretty good idea of how accurate that is.


WD