2004 USPC final table
 

poor jdags [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

I thought the man was going to break into tears. I also felt very sorry for him. He would have gone broke on the next hand, though.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

What happened? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

Jdags lost 1/3 his stack w/ TT v AA, then Hoyt Corkins moved all-in with a blind stealing hand of 87o, Jdags called immediately w/ TT and the flop came J-7-7, turn came another 7 giving Hoyd quads and leaving Jdags with one chip. He was dealt KK, Aglialoro dealt QQ, Schultz JJ, flop came Q-J-x.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

Terrible loss for John, but he's definitely going to have better finishes as well as Joe.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

John D. played horribly and did not deserve the win.

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John D. played horribly and did not deserve the win.

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Good argument. Giving reasons is for pussies.

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I'm sorry, but did anyone else think that the all in with 8-7o was the worst play ever?

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

I am generally very tough on folks who act out in any way at the table. I find it vulgar, to be honest.

D'Agostino pushing over the chips to Corkins definitely fell into this category.

On the other hand, I'm giving him a pass, because it was so brutal to watch.

Think of it--you play for days, hoping someone makes the mistake that Corkins made (and it was a TERRIBLE mistake, seemingly very out of character for him), then you have to parlay this event by actually holding a hand.

Then...THAT happens? You could really lose your mind, seriously.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

Going from a $1m+ chip lead with 9 left to finishing 7th, with the beats he was getting, would make most rational people do the same thing.

Kevin...

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

Yeah. Going from the top to the bottom has to hurt...especially when you played right the whole way. Didn't like some of the table behavior, but given the lack of sleep and the stress that's understandable.

He seems to have the chops, that's for sure.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

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I am generally very tough on folks who act out in any way at the table. I find it vulgar, to be honest.

D'Agostino pushing over the chips to Corkins definitely fell into this category.

On the other hand, I'm giving him a pass, because it was so brutal to watch.

Think of it--you play for days, hoping someone makes the mistake that Corkins made (and it was a TERRIBLE mistake, seemingly very out of character for him), then you have to parlay this event by actually holding a hand.

Then...THAT happens? You could really lose your mind, seriously.

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I agree. It did also appear that Hoyt asked Jdags to push him the chips. I probably would have done the same thing.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

I don't think he acted too badly given what happened. I've seen worse at a 3-6 or 4-8 game, and this event was for a million dollar first place. Maybe he was a little out of line, but wasn't even close to a Hellmuth blowup (I imagine if he took the beats Jdags took, he would have flipped over the table, or at least dropped about 50 f-bombs before exiting.)

Am I missinig something?
 

How was JDags out of line at all? He didn't berate anyone, not even Hoyte who made the stupidest mistake ever. From what I recall of the telecast, JDags simply looked shocked at his misfortune ...

Re: Am I missinig something?
 

A Hellmuth blow up definitely would have been hilarious and expected, especially given teh history between Hoyte and Hellmuth at previous WPT event I forget which one. Anyone can help here?

(Hellmuth was getting owned by Hoyte and upon his exit told Hoyte "I can't wait to get you next time Hoyte")

Re: Am I missinig something?
 

All he did was simply push his chips over. I would have probably done a lot worse. Considering the situation, I think he reacted fairly reasonably.

Of course, according to Norman Chad he was "out of line"...

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt
"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

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I'm sorry, but did anyone else think that the all in with 8-7o was the worst play ever?

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What positions were they in, what was the exact preflop action? How big were the blinds and the size of the raise? I didn't have the volume turned up. thanks.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

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Going from a $1m+ chip lead with 9 left to finishing 7th, with the beats he was getting, would make most rational people do the same thing.

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I genuinely felt bad for the guy. I mean, D'Agostino looked closer to a nervous breakdown than anyone I've ever seen playing poker on television.

And he would have been perfectly justified in having one.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

That dude had some horrific luck, can't blame for being pissed off..can't believe he was as composed as he was.

balt999 journal about poker and life...check it out

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

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What positions were they in, what was the exact preflop action? How big were the blinds and the size of the raise? I didn't have the volume turned up. thanks.

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Hey man.

It was folded around to Corkins in the SB. They each had somewhere around 650K. It was so close, in fact, that D'Agostino had ONE CHIP left after he took the beat.


Not sure of the blinds/antes because they don't really tell you very often. But they couldn't have been TOO high, because the two of them were still in 2nd and 3rd chip positions and I know it hadn't gotten to a bad point yet.

There was no earthly reason for Corkins to push there. It was just plain weird, I thought.

Re: Am I missinig something?
 

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A Hellmuth blow up definitely would have been hilarious and expected, especially given teh history between Hoyte and Hellmuth at previous WPT event I forget which one. Anyone can help here?

(Hellmuth was getting owned by Hoyte and upon his exit told Hoyte "I can't wait to get you next time Hoyte")

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It was the World Poker Finals at Foxwoods. Great episode, esp. that hand where Hoyt hit running sevens vs. Hellmuth.

Re: Am I missinig something?
 

Yes thanks Tyler -- that was the episode. Very entertaining stuff between the "big boys" (Helmuth vs Corkins). I was rooting for Muhammed in the heads-up vs Corkins -- too bad Muhammed folded his two pair Corkins bluff flush draw (I believe).

On another note, from the USPC Interview of Hoyte, I am inferring that Hoyte has been badly broke from poker before (he said something like learning from his past mistake). It's uncanny how a soft spoken guy like him has such an aggressive style, and is apparently a devout Christian southerner.

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Going from a $1m+ chip lead with 9 left to finishing 7th, with the beats he was getting, would make most rational people do the same thing.

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I genuinely felt bad for the guy. I mean, D'Agostino looked closer to a nervous breakdown than anyone I've ever seen playing poker on television.

And he would have been perfectly justified in having one.

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It definately looked like he was going to cry. I would have cried too. Having 1.5m and your closest opponent has 500k going into the final table and losing to Hoyt the way he did. Definately a tough loss. the next hand when his KK got cracked by QQ and JJ was just sick. I mean, he definately wasn't going to come back and win it, but that hand had to just make his day that much worse.

Re: Am I missinig something?
 

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On another note, from the USPC Interview of Hoyte, I am inferring that Hoyte has been badly broke from poker before (he said something like learning from his past mistake).

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I remember seeing something about how Hoyt played the tournament circuit full time over ten years ago and then just disappeared. I'm guessing he went broke, but got back into tournament poker.

Re: Am I missinig something?
 

i don't know what i would have done if i was jdags.....if what he did was out of line, then i probably would have been hauled to the insane asylum or barred from TV like 2 live crew or somethin. I don't think anybody listed the hand where he had aces cracked by the semibluffing J5 on a k44 board w/ 2 diamonds...

i would have flipped out...gods honest truth. That was unbearable to watch

--Corkins push there was definitely insane. it makes very little sense to me since the only hand that is callin him is one that has him beat by a mile, and there isn't that much of an upside to the play.

but i do like jdags bluff w/ the Aces on board against hollander. I've made the same call that hollander has in that situation.....and looked at 3 aces a few times [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

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Think of it--you play for days, hoping someone makes the mistake that Corkins made (and it was a TERRIBLE mistake, seemingly very out of character for him), then you have to parlay this event by actually holding a hand.

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Phil Hellmuth said that Hoyt pushed all in on him dozens of times at their WPT final table. I'm certain he was chip leader there, but it isn't like the players at that final table were insanely short stacked.

I don't know how you can say this is "out of character" for Corkins, this seems to be a play he does all the time, risking a huge amount of chips for the blinds.

WJ

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What positions were they in, what was the exact preflop action? How big were the blinds and the size of the raise? I didn't have the volume turned up. thanks.

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Hey man.

It was folded around to Corkins in the SB. They each had somewhere around 650K. It was so close, in fact, that D'Agostino had ONE CHIP left after he took the beat.


Not sure of the blinds/antes because they don't really tell you very often. But they couldn't have been TOO high, because the two of them were still in 2nd and 3rd chip positions and I know it hadn't gotten to a bad point yet.

There was no earthly reason for Corkins to push there. It was just plain weird, I thought.

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Okay thanks much. I didn't realize it was a battle of the blinds. That is pretty horrid.

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I don't know how you can say this is "out of character" for Corkins, this seems to be a play he does all the time, risking a huge amount of chips for the blinds.


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Actually, in this tournament in particular, he had been playing fairly tight.

At least in the hands that got shown.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

I think jdags could have found a better situation to push his chips in. The situation didn't allow for him to re-raise and push out a blind steal. He was calling for his life with an equal stack. How much of his stack had he already lost for him to be equal with Hoyt at that time???

Was he steaming???

With the editing they do, and the small number of hands shown you could see exactly what was going to happen when he called. I was screaming for him to fold.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

What exactly happened behavior-wise with D'Agostino?

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I've seen all of the '04 USPC episodes until they played down to 18. I must have missed the episode you guys are referring to. When will this ep air again? 'Stosh

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

Evidentially Hoyt asked jdags to "push" him the stacked chips. jdgas did just that, he puched the stacks over and kind of shoved them towards Hoyt. I think the announcers over did the commentary. It was close to the line but he didn't go over it (IMHO).

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With the editing they do, and the small number of hands shown you could see exactly what was going to happen when he called. I was screaming for him to fold.

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You were screaming for him to fold a 5:1 favorite?

What am I missing here?

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

They're airing episodes again today and tomorrow on ESPN2 starting from 12 noon.

Kevin...

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

Since it was the final table, they would have shown the hand either way. My point is that you can see some of this coming just because it made it through editing.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

Also, there seemed to be a dispute over how many chips he had, because it did take quite a while to get it straightened out.

Kevin...

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

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With the editing they do, and the small number of hands shown you could see exactly what was going to happen when he called. I was screaming for him to fold.

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You were screaming for him to fold a 5:1 favorite?

What am I missing here?

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i don't get it either...TT in the BB against an overaggressive corkins. just gotta go with it. If he had folded this place would have exploded. He made the right play and got RAAAAAPED.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

[ QUOTE ]
Evidentially Hoyt asked jdags to "push" him the stacked chips. jdgas did just that, he puched the stacks over and kind of shoved them towards Hoyt. I think the announcers over did the commentary. It was close to the line but he didn't go over it (IMHO).

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IMO, i think he was a little out of line by shoving the chips to hoyt, but at least he didn't berade him ala Phil Hellmuth. I couldn't imagine what would be said if phil was sitting in john's seat.

Re: 2004 USPC final table
 

[ QUOTE ]
Evidentially Hoyt asked jdags to "push" him the stacked chips. jdgas did just that, he puched the stacks over and kind of shoved them towards Hoyt. I think the announcers over did the commentary. It was close to the line but he didn't go over it (IMHO).

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Exactly....and as soon as it happened I was thinking how Norman Chad was going to exploit it.

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IMO, i think he was a little out of line by shoving the chips to hoyt, but at least he didn't berade him ala Phil Hellmuth. I couldn't imagine what would be said if phil was sitting in john's seat.

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Now that would be entertaining to watch