I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

Barry Bonds has said he won't be playing until midseason, and is possibly not playing at all this season. He is citing extreme emotional duress and media harassment of his family.

"I don't wan't my kids to cry anymore."

And this is what happens when the media takes something like baseball just a little bit too seriously.

Thank God I drafted Bobby Abreu instead of Bonds in my keeper league!
-James

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I don't wan't my kids to cry anymore."

And this is what happens when the media takes something like baseball just a little bit too seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bonds is always trying to elicit sympathy by bringing his kids into it. This just pisses me off more than anything. He got to the be one of the greatest players ever by cheating, then whines about it when he gets caught. Give me a [censored]' break. He knew the possible consequences of his actions when he started taking steroids, now he's trying to make the rest of us feel bad about the decisions he conciously made.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't wan't my kids to cry anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Barry, you think this is bad, wait til the feds nail your ass for perjury.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
He got to the be one of the greatest players ever by cheating

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlike McGwire, I think he was clearly on the greatest player track before *alleged* steroid use.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unlike McGwire, I think he was clearly on the greatest player track before *alleged* steroid use.

[/ QUOTE ]

McGwire had 49 home runs his rookie season and has admitted to taking supplements that were legal when he was taking them.

Bonds would have been a HOFer even if he didn't use steroids, but never would have gotten to the point he's at now.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unlike McGwire, I think he was clearly on the greatest player track before *alleged* steroid use.

[/ QUOTE ]

McGwire had 49 home runs his rookie season and has admitted to taking supplements that were legal when he was taking them.

Bonds would have been a HOFer even if he didn't use steroids, but never would have gotten to the point he's at now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. His stature wouldn't have been close to what it is today, but he still had 3 MVPs prior to his post-2000 home-run spree and got gypped out of another, IMHO.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unlike McGwire, I think he was clearly on the greatest player track before *alleged* steroid use.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely untrue. Let's assume he started using steroids in the late 90's. Look at his numbers. He was a very good player. Maybe even a great player. But he was far from "greatest player ever". What he has done since he turned ~ 35 is what brings him into the stratosphere, and unfortunately it seems that it was all done while on the juice.

PS, we don't know when he started taking them. They've been around for a while. Remember Lyle Alzado? Bonds could have been on them as early as 1990 or 1991, when his career started to take off.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unlike McGwire, I think he was clearly on the greatest player track before *alleged* steroid use.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely untrue. Let's assume he started using steroids in the late 90's. Look at his numbers. He was a very good player. Maybe even a great player. But he was far from "greatest player ever". What he has done since he turned ~ 35 is what brings him into the stratosphere, and unfortunately it seems that it was all done while on the juice.

PS, we don't know when he started taking them. They've been around for a while. Remember Lyle Alzado? Bonds could have been on them as early as 1990 or 1991, when his career started to take off.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, I exaggerated a bit too much. My main point was that his career was obviously not completely created by steroids. He was clearly a great player when he was "thin."

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

"I don't wan't my kids to cry anymore."

stop cheating on thier mother

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

I have always believe that Barry was mostly misunderstood and got a bad rap from the media.

Barry is going a good job of make me think otherwise as of late, and that is sad.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have always believe that Barry was mostly misunderstood and got a bad rap from the media.

Barry is going a good job of make me think otherwise as of late, and that is sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about it. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the media, since I know how pushy the media can be, but he's just sounding like a jerk now.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]

Bonds is always trying to elicit sympathy by bringing his kids into it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm, I have to disagree with you here. Bonds' primary concern during interviews is not eliciting sympathy (and never has been) perhaps until this last one (in which I also don't think he really was trying to elicit sympathy).

[ QUOTE ]

This just pisses me off more than anything. He got to the be one of the greatest players ever by cheating, then whines about it when he gets caught.


[/ QUOTE ]

He got caught? When?

[ QUOTE ]

Give me a [censored]' break. He knew the possible consequences of his actions when he started taking steroids, now he's trying to make the rest of us feel bad about the decisions he conciously made.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, maybe he knew the consequences but it's more likely he never expected the steriod thing to go this far. He's not really trying to make 'us' feel guilty in any broad sense (perhaps the 'media' although I'm sure he'd be happier being left alone than making anyone in the media feel guilty). He just hates the media, is very frustrated right now and has an ego bigger than Kobe Bryant.

FWIW I think Bonds is scared by the way the hearings are going, frustrated with his neverending rehabilitation and can barely fathom the ever increasing media attention he gets.

Yugoslav

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

why would baseball allow anyone that used steroids or is taking them to ever play in the leagues again. they should be stripped of all records and forgotten. this makes baseball a sham the way they are trying to poo-poo it and have self regulation.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
why would baseball allow anyone that used steroids or is taking them to ever play in the leagues again. they should be stripped of all records and forgotten. this makes baseball a sham the way they are trying to poo-poo it and have self regulation.

[/ QUOTE ]

B/c there aren't enough 'fans' like you, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Seriously though, the MLB will try to do whatever they think will maximize profit (generally short term). Keeping players like Bonds in the league is quite possibly in their best interest entertainment-wise....but who knows what it will do to the longevity of the league.

Yugoslav

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

Ray,

I'm in total agreement with the sentiment of your post, but.........

....to answer your rhetorical question, "Deep Throat" said it best....

......"Follow the Money"

He did.....the owners did....other players did.....MLB did.

....very, very sad.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I don't wan't my kids to cry anymore."

stop cheating on their mother

[/ QUOTE ]

Sublime wins. nh

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

I dunno, why doesn't the NFL do this either?

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

The fact of the matter is that Bonds was one of the top ten position players of all time pre 1999, or, at least, on the track to becoming it.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is absolutely untrue.

[/ QUOTE ] no its not. 3 MVPs before his alleged steroid use(should have been 4).

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

The governing body of MLB is a joke. They gave numerous chances to addicts back in the 80's. Roger Maris had an asterisk next to his record just for doing it in a season with more games for Pete's sake. He never got the credit he deserved. I'm not a baseball fan by any means but, as an outside observer, I have no idea why they are letting these juice heads steal their game's soul. Shameful.

Russ

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

Actually, I'll tell you why it wouldn't be a good idea.

We have no idea how much steroids affect a player's performance, and we never will unless they become openly legal and records are taken and tests are run.

I'm all for testing and the possibility of removing steroids from the game. It's unhealthy for the game. But what's even worse is the fact that we have no idea how performance enhancing these performance enhancing drugs are.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

I feel Bonds is an arrogant person. A very personal person. I think what the media does and says affects him *a lot* and always has no matter how he tries to play it off. Maybe it's because I'm a Giants fan, but I have always liked Bonds despite his questionable attitude. He is just a person that cannot handle the spotlight of being such a large athlete.

He was a jackass before the steroid thing blew up this year. While the "i just won't my kids to stop crying" is a great exaggeration, Bonds is just the type of person that would like to spend his time with his family and never see a camera again.

Go Giants!

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
Roger Maris had an asterisk next to his record just for doing it in a season with more games for Pete's

[/ QUOTE ]

False.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact of the matter is that Bonds was one of the top ten position players of all time pre 1999

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't agree. Not even close.


[ QUOTE ]
Or, at least, on the track to becoming it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hindsight certainly is 20-20. But if you asked in 1999, I think most people would have disagreed with you. Nobody could have expected his performance not simply to sustain itself but to improve at his age.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is absolutely untrue.

[/ QUOTE ] no its not. 3 MVPs before his alleged steroid use(should have been 4).

[/ QUOTE ]

So what. He wasn't "on track" to be the greatest player ever. It's a ridiculous thing to say. A lot has to happen to get that title. Such as hitting 73 home runs in a season.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

I feel bad for his kids. No, really I do. They have to live with this A-hole.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

I don't think he meant a literal asterik. But people did not give him credit, the extra games were talked about all the time.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
A lot has to happen to get that title. Such as hitting 73 home runs in a season.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not his most impressive feat.

Although it was very impressive.

Yugoslav

People are sooooooooo Naive about steroids.
 

People have no idea how many people use steroids. Tons of HS kids take steroids for football season, and people are surprised that PRO Baseball players are using them?? Posters on here have kids, friends, neighbors who use them.. But they think, "he just works out a lot."

I blame the league for it and not the players. If you saw people around you using steroids, you would probably feel it almost necessary to take steroids to keep up. If Carl Lewis knew that Ben Johnson was doping, would you blame him for using them too if he knew he wasn't going to be tested? Well, there were tests, so he didn't have to use them. This would be the same case if baseball had strict guidelines all along.

Really makes you appreciate Roger Maris.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

no one considers him the greatest player(in fact that whole argument is stupid to begin with), but he was most certainly on track to being one of the greatest players ever.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]

No, I don't agree. Not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey.

He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times.

From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third.

He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period.

For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues.

Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

No, I don't agree. Not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey.

He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times.

From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third.

He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period.

For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues.

Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry.

[/ QUOTE ]

VNH.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

trying to convince someone whom hates Barry with all their heart that he is one of the best baseball players ever(even "pre-steroid") is a lesson in futility.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

i honestly think that players like barry bonds are ruining sports.

no one in their right mind ever believed (or still believes) he wasn't taking steroids.

allowing him to break hank aarons all time home run record or pass babe ruth's would be horrible for baseball and for fans who believe in integrity

stealthcow-

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

^ Jack, see. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

We don't know what kind of father he is. He might not be an a-hole.

But he definitely is a spoiled crybaby with a distorted sense of his own self-importance. He's coming up on Babe Ruth's lifetime home run total and all sorts of other achievements, he could really set an example for others if he showed some humility and generosity and graciousnesss.

What a shame.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

No, I don't agree. Not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey.

He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times.

From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third.

He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period.

For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues.

Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry.

[/ QUOTE ]

VNH.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Game, set, match.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

I'm sure Barry haters will simply skim this and move on to their ridiculous anti-steroid rhetoric. But, um... pwned!

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

No, I don't agree. Not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey.

He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times.

From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times.

From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third.

He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period.

For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues.

Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't compare numbers in the 90s with numbers in other eras. You seem to know baseball. You should know that.

He is one of the top 10 today because of what he has done from 1999. 292 HRs since then, for example. He was not as of 1999.

Ruth
Gehrig
Mays
Mantle
Musial
Ted Williams
Honus Wagner
Rogers Hornsby
Cobb
DiMaggio

Off the top of my head, for starters. As of '99, Bonds didn't rank ahead of a single one of them. And I'm sure I am not the only one that thinks so.

Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can't compare numbers in the 90s with numbers in other eras. You seem to know baseball. You should know that.

[/ QUOTE ]
He showed how Barry dominated the league for the 90s, not how his raw numbers compared to those of past eras. Statistics as they compare to one's peers is a pretty powerful gauge of one's dominance.