My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

In chronological order:
268BB
196BB
397BB
381BB
178BB

Will I ever beat this game without those enormous downswings? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Sometimes I wonder, do I really suck that much, is this normal or am I just unlucky...

Thanks,

Guido

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

some of those are pretty huge. My biggest is probably along the lines of 200. Of course i'm currently in about a 300 BB upswing.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

looks like ive been realyl lucky so far,

my biggest is just under 200BB, then I've had 2 at 150 and more than I can even count at the 100 or just above.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

175 and 2 around 100

this is from about 100k hands from 3-6 to 10-20.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

I've had many at 100-125BB. About 3 at 125-150.

My 2 biggest... 175BB (3/6 full) and in January 275BB (5/10 6-max).

I had 4 seperate people look through many of the hands of the 275BB downswing, and they all said it was variance. I guess the more hands you play, the more you will see. So if you've had those downswings over 50k hands, you may have to worry. If those downswings were from 2 million hands... I don't think you have a problem. (FWIW.. my downswings are in about 250k hands).

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

650 BB downswing.

TSP

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

Guido I'm guessing you are talking 10/20 sh here. I've had one of about 350 and some of that was at 5/10 as I dropped down mid slide. I did some _very_ rough calculations at the time and figured with the amount I was playing and the winrate I was used to, meant this would happen once every 5-10 years.

Maybe you play more than me. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

My 60k first hands at 5/10 I had one 300BB downswing and now I'm in a 150BB downswing, look at my crazy graph , not at all smooth as I want it, and I'm only just over 1BB/100 so I suck [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

This is from since I started playing 6-max. Before that I only played full ring and never lost more than about a 100BB is my guess. I've played about 73K hands at 5/10 and about 136K at 10/20 so about 210K in total.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

guido - if you don't mind me asking, over how many hands did each of these downswings last?

i've been struggling with a pretty dismal winrate over the past 50k hands...I blame small sample size! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyways, for what it's worth, keep on posting here, I value your posts along with 2 or 3 others as the best. I haven't seen many posts/replies from you lately :\

-DrG

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

Hi DrGutshot,

Well that took some time to estimate. I also discovered a small mistake in my first calculations. Here are the numbers I can come up with:

268BB 7K hands
196BB 3.3K hands
426BB 22K hands
385BB 15.2K hands
178BB 7.3K hands

I've had great runs where I had a winrate of more than 7 over 7 or 8K hands but then I would get a big downswing and even after this many hands I can't even reach 1BB/100 so far overall.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, for what it's worth, keep on posting here, I value your posts along with 2 or 3 others as the best. I haven't seen many posts/replies from you lately

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been trying to improve my game a lot. I've become a lot better out of the blinds but somehow things don't work in the blinds.

I also don't spent that much time at these boards because most of the posts just aren't that interesting. I will try to spent some more time here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

Thanks,

Guido

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

well that is pretty nasty.

when you measure a downswing, does it start with a losing session and end when you have a winning session?


So when you say you are on a 400BB down swing it means that your swing looks something like this:

session 0= + 1BB
session 1= -100BB
session 2= -50BB
session 3= -75BB
session 4=-25BB
session 5=-50BB
session 6=-100BB
for a total of -400BBs worth of consec losing sessions

session 7= +1BB= equals end of downswing.

I just wonder if people have a uniform definition of a downswing.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've had great runs where I had a winrate of more than 7 over 7 or 8K hands but then I would get a big downswing and even after this many hands I can't even reach 1BB/100 so far overall.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very similar to my experience so far as well [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]

I've been trying to improve my game a lot. I've become a lot better out of the blinds but somehow things don't work in the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

once again, my experience exactly. I am having tons of trouble bringing my bb/hand in the blinds up.

[ QUOTE ]
I also don't spent that much time at these boards because most of the posts just aren't that interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience exactly [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
It's tough finding good interesting hands on these forums. I have been searching old-school ED hands from 6mo-2yrs ago for good stuff.

Anyways, I will join you in our never-ending quest for a better winrate, good luck and see you around. Thanks for taking the time to dig up that info.

-DrG

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

That's not what my definition is of a downswing. I just make a graph and look at a top and a bottom and calculate the difference between those two. Between those two I might have several winning sessions but they didn't make up for the losses until then.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

Serious misrememberance on my part. My big slide was about 525 big bets.

Did I misremember that because it still hurts to think about it or because I am just so old I forget everything?

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

ok, i see. you make a graph with number of hands along one axis and your bankroll in size of BBs along the other axis (assuming no withdraws or additions). So along this charting you are picking the two points and measuring there distance from eachother in terms of BBs. And therefore you could have many smaller ups and downs along the way. Ok, makes sense... I assume most mean what you mean as well.

So if, for example, a bad player who did not know how to play very well started with 1,000 BBS: He went through the various cycles of winning and losing with many peaks and valleys over the course of 500,000 hands but wound up broke after these 500,000 hands... He could then say he was on a 1,000BB Downswing.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

[ QUOTE ]
you make a graph with number of hands along one axis and your bankroll in size of BBs along the other axis (assuming no withdraws or additions).

[/ QUOTE ]

not that it really matters but most people plot total amount won or lost on the vertical axis and number of hands or hours on the horizontal axis

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

You got it, although I don't keep track of the amount of hands played. I got that out of pokertracker by looking at the dates in my excelsheet. There I keep track of the amount of BB won/lost. I just had an other 100BB losing session. I must be playing bad but the amount of suckouts is just amazing. 2, 3 and 4 outers hitting everywhere and I seem to always pay them of.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

Guido, what's your BB/100?

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

from earlier in this thread

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I can't even reach 1BB/100 so far overall.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason for this is because Guido is too tight. He is folding too much trash preflop. He needs to play Q4o more on the button. (see the Grisgra thread)

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

after 25k hands at 2/4 and 3/6 my biggest is 70BB

:O i know its coming soon

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

[ QUOTE ]
650 BB downswing.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

Karma's a bitch, eh?

Dan

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

I had a 350BB 1 year ago, a 300BB last summer and a 300BB right now. I play about 20K hands/month.

Swings are very dependent on your actual long term winrate. 1BB/100 and 3BB/100 makes an extreme difference. The first one will see +500BB, the 2nd one not more then +200BB.

But this, of course, is dependent on you always playing the same style against the same players. And I dont think u are, if u are on a brutal downswing u play worse, people get a little bit more tricky, seeing u lose at the table, and u get a little more weak from losing all the time. You would need to be a robot, never letting then down and upswings change your style a little.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

[ QUOTE ]
So if, for example, a bad player who did not know how to play very well started with 1,000 BBS: He went through the various cycles of winning and losing with many peaks and valleys over the course of 500,000 hands but wound up broke after these 500,000 hands... He could then say he was on a 1,000BB Downswing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have to be a winning player to be able to say that you are experiencing or had experienced a downswing. If you are a losing player you aren´t exactly on a downswing are you?

Strictly speaking a winning player that has a proven winrate of 2BB/h could be said to be on a downswing if his winrate drops to 1BB/h over a long enough timespan. Of course almost no one can be sure what their true winrate is, but nonetheless...

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

Any chance you can post up the procedure for exporting hands/$$ data from PT to excel spreadsheet. I tried to do this before but it was a messy cut&paste job and some fiddling around in excel after. There must be a simple way to run an export?

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

I'm nearly 300 bb down at (mostly) 10/20 six max in the last week only over 3,500 hands and VPIP around 23. Every time I sit down I'm -10 bb/100 for the session. Seems out of control, but I've been a little better than break even in the previous months (after improving my game with help of posters here), so I'm hoping it's a cold streak and not a reality check. Gives me some encouragement that, after switching to .50/1 to take a break and work off a bonus, I won like 3 in 200 hands. Sometimes the cards just aren't there . . . and sometimes you just suck and chalk it up to variance.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any chance you can post up the procedure for exporting hands/$$ data from PT to excel spreadsheet. I tried to do this before but it was a messy cut&paste job and some fiddling around in excel after. There must be a simple way to run an export?

[/ QUOTE ]

This graphing tool looks pretty freakin cool, but I cant get it to work on my puter. I'm the moron Hankwut. Wish I could get this to work.... Nap it may save you time as opposed to messin with excel.

http://www.pokertracker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4226

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

The reason for this is because Guido is too tight. He is folding too much trash preflop. He needs to play Q4o more on the button.

I'm not that tight anymore. My VP$IP is not about 25% at the moment.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

Hi Nap,

I keep record the amount of BB's I win/lose each day in excel. So when I know from when to when I had a downswing, I can get an estimate of the amount of hands by filtering between these days in Pokertracker. That program Maxx suggested might be a better idea though.

Thanks,

Guido

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

I lost 120 bets in 400 hands. Does that count?

-Michael

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lost 120 bets in 400 hands. Does that count?

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]


pfff that's nothing

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

I'm currently in like a 400 BB one

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

"pfff that's nothing"

Well it was my worst hour ever.

-Michael

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

I feel ya.
Had a 380 BB downswing in feb- just got it back today.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

well you're not very good at losing then

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

"well you're not very good at losing then"

You have no idea how many massive losing streaks I am owed. I honestly think I run well in the 99th percentile.

-Michael

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

So, you're my positive counter-part...


Actually no, it's not that bad for me, I'd estimate I'm in the bottom third tough.

Re: My 5 biggest downswings are...
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, you're my positive counter-part...


Actually no, it's not that bad for me, I'd estimate I'm in the bottom third tough.

[/ QUOTE ]



maybe it's because you spent 8 months playing in the black hole of poker, party 5/10 full

for everyone in a 300+ downswing
 

how do you maintain a decent winrate with a 400+ downswing or multiple 300+ ones? those are HUGE losses. i just don't get it, because all these players i thought were solid are annoucing these massive losses.

i don't even think i'm in the top tier of players, but the biggest downswing i've had is 170 BB, and a couple of 100 BB that i didn't even notice. maybe it's a different style of play? maybe some people aren't winning players (esp if downswing is over a lot of hands)? i don't get it...

Re: for everyone in a 300+ downswing
 

you probably haven't played very much